Do I Need a 107 license?

[Steve Carr]

I'm just a "*****" for information, sometimes too much can be a bad thing

I'm going to change the title of your thread because this is an important topic and it is often overlooked and misunderstood.

 

[gwhuntoon]

I've also turned down potential work because I don't have my 107, however this was only once or twice in the last 5 years and it wasn't work I was actively pursuing, nor would it have offset the cost of my 107. I would need to seriously pursue work to justify it. To me, that's the rub. The penalties are way too high and deter even having fun with this hobby.

If I was a 107 holder, I'd feel the same as everyone else who has spent the time, effort, and cost to do so. My problem is I have a day job, and this is more of an expensive hobby in which I can't justify the effort and on going expense, just for the convenience and perks of a 107.

I get what the FAA is trying to do but it seems there should be a middle of the road certification level which demonstrates proficiency and compliance, is more affordable or free and grants some of the part 107 perks like the occasional 1 off job, like ( work being done not to exceed a certain dollar amount in any given year and/or doesn't lift flight restrictions etc). Most of us could then be completely legal with no fears of fines, unless we're truly breaking or blantantly disregarding the law. I think this all or nothing approach with high fines to deter and enforce compliance by example is ultimately doomed to fail and doesn't address people like me and frankly won't make the skies safer. In the end, isn't that the intent?

The initial question raised here by johnnyb57 is been made here and elsewhere all the time. The cynic in me thinks, maybe that's the point. One too many decent people do the wrong thing, then the Govt can say I told you so and drop the hammer of restrictions grounding all recreational drones and opening up the airspace to the Amazon's and UPS's of the world.

 

[PatR]

I've never intended to do this, was just a question thrown out there ? What l was getting at how many people really know/understand what credentials one is suppose to have ? Same could be said for auto repair, one is licensed, one is not. Another would be taking pictures of lets say landscapes/seascapes then selling them at a flea market, or whatever ? Theres a lot of questions seeking answers, and what would happen if one got caught. Nothing more than my thoughts ?

There should be no questions in anyone’s mind regarding the difference between commercial and recreational, who can get paid and who can’t. The legal documentation establishing all that has been available to anyone that desired to read it for a long time.

Major real estate brokers had it made extremely clear to them in 2013 when the FAA sent out cease and desist orders prohibiting the use of non commercial pilots and their aircraft for real estate work. The same thing happened with power distribution companies. Many long standing contracts were quickly terminated.

The only people that have any doubts are those that are always looking for a way to cheat the system to their advantage or people incredibly stupid. A lot of people have put years of time and effort to operate commercially within the boundaries of the law. I’m really surprised we haven’t read about a group of them confronting illegal commercial operators and confiscating their aircraft after a beat down.

 

[johnnyb57]

There should be no questions in anyone’s mind regarding the difference between commercial and recreational, who can get paid and who can’t. The legal documentation establishing all that has been available to anyone that desired to read it for a long time.

Major real estate brokers had it made extremely clear to them in 2013 when the FAA sent out cease and desist orders prohibiting the use of non commercial pilots and their aircraft for teal estate work. The same thing happened with power distribution companies.

The only people that have any doubts are those that are always looking for a way to cheat the system to their advantage or people incredibly stupid. A lot of people have put years of time and effort to operate commercially within the boundaries of the law. I’m really surprised we haven’t read about a group of them confronting illegal commercial operators and confiscating their aircraft after a beat down.

Eveyone is always looking to push the limits, as people do with their legal race cars, and bikes

 

[Mrgs1]

Eveyone is always looking to push the limits, as people do with their legal race cars, and bikes

That can happen because there is no relevant legislation, just because it might be wrong doesn't mean it's illegal.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

I've also turned down potential work because I don't have my 107, however this was only once or twice in the last 5 years and it wasn't work I was actively pursuing, nor would it have offset the cost of my 107. I would need to seriously pursue work to justify it. To me, that's the rub. The penalties are way too high and deter even having fun with this hobby.

If I was a 107 holder, I'd feel the same as everyone else who has spent the time, effort, and cost to do so. My problem is I have a day job, and this is more of an expensive hobby in which I can't justify the effort and on going expense, just for the convenience and perks of a 107.

I get what the FAA is trying to do but it seems there should be a middle of the road certification level which demonstrates proficiency and compliance, is more affordable or free and grants some of the part 107 perks...

gw,

If my recollection is correct, the FAA does not charge for the part 107 certification. I believe @PatR was one who pointed out a couple years ago (maybe) regarding the fee. That fee goes to the administrators of the in-person exam.

With that said, I agree with your intended point. Perhaps a bit more intense knowledge test, but online and lower fee, for something to keep the average Joe out of trouble in the gray area situations, or those once every so often commercial assignments.

Perhaps, like business levels, tax revenue, et al... exceed a certain threshold, or plan to exceed, and one’s certification level must coincide.

Seems to work for driver (over the road) licensing, doesn’t it?

Some thoughts, anyway....

Jeff

 

[gwhuntoon]

gw,

If my recollection is correct, the FAA does not charge for the part 107 certification. I believe @PatR was one who pointed out a couple years ago (maybe) regarding the fee. That fee goes to the administrators of the in-person exam.

With that said, I agree with your intended point. Perhaps a bit more intense knowledge test, but online and lower fee, for something to keep the average Joe out of trouble in the gray area situations, or those once every so often commercial assignments.

Perhaps, like business levels, tax revenue, et al... exceed a certain threshold, or plan to exceed, and one’s certification level must coincide.

Seems to work for driver (over the road) licensing, doesn’t it?

Some thoughts, anyway....

Jeff

You are correct Jeff, the 107 isn't directly charged, however the exam and examiner time is charged and you can't have one without the other, until the FAA makes part 107 exam taking online and free, there 's still a charge. When I checked into our local testing center a couple of years back, it was north of $300. Granted, I've spent way more with my purchases in this hobby but the $300 isn't a one time fee, there is also the renewal and additional charges.

When comparing this to driving, I need my vehicles to get around, i.e. tough to live without one so it's easier for me to justify the licensing, taxes, insurance, and other associated fees.

I can live without this hobby but I'd be much more enjoyable not have the spectre of significant fines and jail time, especially since it's just that, a hobby, for enjoyment.

Its bad enough being heckled by the typical drone hater, in addition to the stress of flying and landing safely, but when am I going to be hassled by someone trolling for posting a drone video to YouTube, or Facebook claiming I might be making money off it. Drones have become the equivalent of legalized flying 'pot', it may be legal in some states, but not without a stigma attached.

I never experienced anything like this before. Back when I started this RC hobby, i.e, flying, driving, and boating, it was fun. The most I needed was an FCC license. Later, even that went away. It was nothing then like it is today.

Fortunately though, I think the 'drone fever' has subsided, and we've reached market saturation. Those who weren't really into it anyway have already sold their gear and moved on. Problem is, that 'drone fever' created the mess we have today.

Speaking of regulations, maybe we should require a license to use a computer, or social media. Since when is it OK to only have a pulse to be a Troll or do anything technical?

Basic creedo for life - "Respect others, and don't steal their stuff." everything else will work itself out.

 

[Docdor]

Two key points:
1.) Where's the harm: Not getting caught does not make it legal.
2.) brings more work: It appears you intend to do this regularly. Each time you repeat a clandestine activity increases the probability that you WILL get caught

If you do not have insurance and crash causing damage or fire or injury, your profit could be a huge loss and no doubt would be investigated. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Even if you have insurance.....once the insurance company investigates your claim and finds you do not have a 107 license, and are therefore operating illegally, they will deny your claim.

 

[johnnyb57]

Even if you have insurance.....once the insurance company investigates your claim and finds you do not have a 107 license, and are therefore operating illegally, they will deny your claim.

Thanx

 

[Mrgs1]

Even if you have insurance.....once the insurance company investigates your claim and finds you do not have a 107 license, and are therefore operating illegally, they will deny your claim.

They'll try and get out of paying even if you are legal.

 

[PatR]

The FAA generated a study to establish the cost of applicant testing and despite the fact their studies determined the cost is much higher, set the testing fee at $150.00. With the exception of the online knowledge test for active full scale pilots to obtain an unmanned “ad on”, every written test for an FAA certificate has always been charged an application fee. Practical flight tests typically are charged an additional fee.

The FAA receives very little, if any, money from testing fees as most of it goes directly to the person or entity administering the test. The FAA’s operating budget is funded by Congress and aviation fuel taxes, along with other fees collected from commercial carriers for secured flight routes and other special FAA services. That’s one of the problems with administering drone regulations as drones do not generate tax or other revenue to offset FAA service costs.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

Why insure my (H model), It cost more to insure and nothing to replace it with.
I don't fly over people or cars, I'm mostly in the wilderness. I have my 107, however I haven't update my bi-annual, so I will continue to fly and and sell my photo's.

Liability insurance, kind sir!

Sounds like you are self-insuring your aircraft, meaning out of pocket expenses to repair or replace. [emoji41]

As for your recurrent, or lack thereof... are you protesting the requirement, and therefore willfully bucking regulations?

Just wondering, in case anyone reads your post and deduces [incorrectly] the recurrent testing requirement is optional.

Jeff

 

[Fred Garvin]

...Liability insurance, kind sir!...

Yep.....$1mil policy minimum.....each job gets its own and cost is passed to client. Some construction sites require you to have them named as a payee also.

 

[PatR]

As for your recurrent, or lack thereof... are you protesting the requirement, and therefore willfully bucking regulations?

Just wondering, in case anyone reads your post and deduces the recurrent testing requirement is optional.

Jeff

Recurrency is not an option if one desires to continue operating commercially. However, if they have ceased operating commercially and no longer advertise a product or service there’s no point in becoming current.

AH-1G knows what he is doing and how the system works quite well.

 

[Grumpy]

AH-1G knows what he is doing and how the system works quite well.

Well sometimes.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier or not. While flying right seat in a Cessna Citation a few months ago and upon landing we turned off the runway a bit tight and got stuck in the mud.?
Sine we were only a few feet off the runway and a foot deep in mud, the runway had to be closed, any approaching traffic was diverted to other airfields.? All in all control tower got a two our break. FAA just wanted to know what and how this transpired. We gave them a short sentence of the incident.
View attachment 20320
[/QUOTE]
Shoulda put it 4 wheel drive.

 

[Ric B]

Shoulda put it 4 wheel drive.

I think you mean 3 wheel drive..... ;-)

 

[PatR]

The question is, which seat was handling the ground taxi?

I remember a day in Iraq when a Hunter UAV ended up with the right main in the dirt off the runway. A massive investigation, reassignment, and retraining effort followed. Be grateful it wasn’t a military flight.

 

[BigAl07]

The FAA receives very little, if any, money from testing fees as most of it goes directly to the person or entity administering the test. The FAA’s operating budget is funded by Congress and aviation fuel taxes, along with other fees collected from commercial carriers for secured flight routes and other special FAA services. That’s one of the problems with administering drone regulations as drones do not generate tax or other revenue to offset FAA service costs.

Well said. For the record, the FAA gets nothing from the actual tests what so ever. 100% goes to the testing facility/administrator.

For anyone saying, "Maybe the Realtors don't know you need a Part 107" that's a HUGE cop-out and completely unacceptable. They've been getting this pounded into their heads since 2014 (Section 333 Exemption days) and this has been re-iterated to them many times from many "official" sources.

Fortunately many MLS's have cracked down and now require prior documentation before they will accept aerial images. One of the largest MLS's in the country not only requires it initially they stay on top of your "currency" and will reach out to you within days of the time for you to re-up your credentials.

For the record, $$ is but one determining factor for Part 107. You can do things that do NOT exchange $$ and still fall under Part 107 regs. Technically every operator in the US that is not flying under a Govt COA or PS COA is flying under Part 107 by default. If you want to have "protection" from the Regulations of Part 107 you must fly under ALL of the conditions of Hobby/Recreational flight listed in Section 349 of FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018 and is codified at 49 U.S.C. 44809

Section 349 lists (8) Conditions that must be met (all 8) in order to get relief from Part 107. Now to make matters more complicated (muddy the waters) 2 of the conditions of Section 349 are not yet created/approved (Aeronautical/Safety Test & as well as recognition of CBO) and not applicable (today). So in order to get the "Protection" from Section 349 you have to meet the remaining requirements for the entire flight. Otherwise you are, by default, operating under Part 107 regulations.

The very first requirement states:
"1. The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes. "

You can not Hobby/Recreate for another person. If you do something "For" someone you have already pierced the protective bubble of Section 349.

Section 349 (legal speak so be warned)

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.federalregister.gov

 

[AH-1G]

The question is, which seat was handling the ground taxi?

I remember a day in Iraq when a Hunter UAV ended up with the right main in the dirt off the runway. A massive investigation, reassignment, and retraining effort followed. Be grateful it wasn’t a military flight.

ahhhhhh, no coment, looking at ground airport diagram for GND CON frequency.? Would Have been better off asking Tower to repeat it.