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Gimbal Tilt (Velocity) strange behaviour

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I've been doing some testing of the vertical tilt using the ST16S whilst the H520 / E90 is static on the ground in preparation for my first proper job doing a little filming. I'm torn between Angle and Velocity mode - both have issues.

That aside, when in Velocity mode, the 'neutral' point is quite high. And when moving the rear slider up gently (to start moving the camera up slowly) it actually starts moving the camera down!
If I continue to move the slider up more (to increase upward velocity) then the camera stops its downward movement and starts moving upward.

But it essentially renders the Velocity mode unusable :-(

I have checked the channels and done a recalibration (leading me to only have between 4 and 89 degrees of vertical movement in Gimbal Angle mode...) and the channel for the gimbal slider works correctly - moves up and down smoothly with even the smallest of changes. But in practice when connected to the E90 and using Velocity mode, the slow downward movement when the slider is moved up slightly above neutral is still there.

Grrrrrr...

Any thoughts from anyone having experienced anything similar (or with the standard ST16)?

Oh, and I have literally just done the latest firmware updates that came out today (though I have no idea what changes they have made, certainly no new orbit modes, etc...)
 
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When you did the calibration, did you have the slider in about the half way position?
@Steve Carr the other strange thing is, the slider shows completely correct behaviour in the channels. It's only its use when controlling the E90 when it behaves oddly. So I don't 'think' it's mechanical.
 

Steve Carr

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We need @Bob520 to review this issue. He has a great deal of knowledge with this system. I may take a day for him to reply.
 

arruntus

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It's happened to me once too, but it didn't happen to me again. I can't remember if it was before or after I calibrated the ST16S.

The other day flying I used a lot of the movements of the gymbal and everything correct.

Happens to you all the time?
 
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I've been doing some testing of the vertical tilt using the ST16S whilst the H520 / E90 is static on the ground in preparation for my first proper job doing a little filming. I'm torn between Angle and Velocity mode - both have issues.

That aside, when in Velocity mode, the 'neutral' point is quite high. And when moving the rear slider up gently (to start moving the camera up slowly) it actually starts moving the camera down!
If I continue to move the slider up more (to increase upward velocity) then the camera stops its downward movement and starts moving upward.

But it essentially renders the Velocity mode unusable :-(

I have checked the channels and done a recalibration (leading me to only have between 4 and 89 degrees of vertical movement in Gimbal Angle mode...) and the channel for the gimbal slider works correctly - moves up and down smoothly with even the smallest of changes. But in practice when connected to the E90 and using Velocity mode, the slow downward movement when the slider is moved up slightly above neutral is still there.

Grrrrrr...

Any thoughts from anyone having experienced anything similar (or with the standard ST16)?

Oh, and I have literally just done the latest firmware updates that came out today (though I have no idea what changes they have made, certainly no new orbit modes, etc...)
What is happening is the camera when it's turning on is not resetting to the position of the slider. Try starting with the camera gimbal slider in the full forward position. When you switch from angle flight mode to manual flight mode just check the slider position is full forward. There appears to be a slight variation between the slider and camera angles for angle flight mode and manual flight mode. When you transfer modes the camera isn't moving until you move the slider, this is causing the camera to play catch up between the two flight modes.
 
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@Bob520 thanks for the response. Interesting concept!

I'll review it later tonight / tomorrow before my next test flight.

Just double checking, when you say Angle Flight Mode / Manual Flight Mode, you're referring to Angle Camera and Velocity Camera mode? Too many modes on this thing ;-) Just confirming because there are a lot of people from different nationalities and native languages on this board and don't want to confuse people with flight modes and camera modes if they read this thread.

Thanks again for the suggestion. I'll update the ticket with the outcome.

Cheers.
 
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What is happening is the camera when it's turning on is not resetting to the position of the slider. Try starting with the camera gimbal slider in the full forward position. When you switch from angle flight mode to manual flight mode just check the slider position is full forward. There appears to be a slight variation between the slider and camera angles for angle flight mode and manual flight mode. When you transfer modes the camera isn't moving until you move the slider, this is causing the camera to play catch up between the two flight modes.
@Bob520 I'm afraid the theory in my case doesn't hook up with reality.
I tried various things, including what you suggested, and in all cases the camera still moves down slowly when moving the slider up slightly above neutral.
I'll try a clean with contact cleaner, and another recalibration of the analogue controls.
I might even try finishing the calibration with the camera slider slightly down more than the middle.
If there is anything else you can think of or suggest, @Bob520 please let me know. I appreciate your input so far.
Cheers
 

arruntus

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Try this. Leave the camera as horizontal as possible, no matter what position the slider is in. Turns off the H520 and ST16S and when turned off moves the slider in half. Turn everything on. I think that's how I solved it.
 
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Try this. Leave the camera as horizontal as possible, no matter what position the slider is in. Turns off the H520 and ST16S and when turned off moves the slider in half. Turn everything on. I think that's how I solved it.
@arruntus I'll give it a try later.
If no joy, I'll do the electrical contact cleaner and recalibration.
I might even see if I can take the back panel off, as my yaw control has gone slightly off again.
Will contact Haydn to see what the cost of a replacement ST16S is, or new controllers at least for the left hand stick and camera slider.
 

arruntus

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I thought I modified the post, I'll add the other possible test you can do.

Leave the camera completely horizontal regardless of the slider position and calibrate the gimbal. Then as before, turn it off put it in the middle and turn it on. Let us know if it worked for you.
 
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@arruntus / @Bob520 I've tried all suggestions. Still no joy.

The rotary slider in Channels works perfectly. It's just the execution when in Velocity mode. Has anyone else experienced this??? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.
 
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Quick question, are you referring to the down position (v) on switch S1?
@Bob520 that's correct. This is an issue with the vertical camera control when in Velocity (V) mode, triggered using the upper left switch (S1) in the fully down position. Thanks
 
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@Bob520 that's correct. This is an issue with the vertical camera control when in Velocity (V) mode, triggered using the upper left switch (S1) in the fully down position. Thanks
Ok now it makes more sense, the S1 down position is to get the camera to climb the 15-20° above horizontal. It is programmed not to respond to the first 50% of input from the gimbal slider. Hence why it goes down before coming up. There is no way to go above horizontal without flipping the switch. To get the camera to smoothly respond to the slider with switch S1 in the down position you will need to put the slider in the full up position, flip switch S1 and then move the slider down. If you want the camera to work properly leave S1 in the middle position this will give you the horizontal to straight down angles.
 
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Ok now it makes more sense, the S1 down position is to get the camera to climb the 15-20° above horizontal. It is programmed not to respond to the first 50% of input from the gimbal slider. Hence why it goes down before coming up. There is no way to go above horizontal without flipping the switch. To get the camera to smoothly respond to the slider with switch S1 in the down position you will need to put the slider in the full up position, flip switch S1 and then move the slider down. If you want the camera to work properly leave S1 in the middle position this will give you the horizontal to straight down angles.
@Bob520 I think we're talking at crossed purposes.

I'm aware of how V mode accesses the upper few % of the camera position. However, my problem is not with that or how Angle and Velocity mode works. They make perfect sense.

In Velocity mode the rear slider has a neutral point in the mid-position. At this point the camera doesn't move either up or down, as expected, as this is the '0' velocity point with neither upward or downward velocity.

If I move the rear slider down from this central point, the camera moves down as expected. And the speed/velocity with which the camera moves down is in correlation to the distance the slider is moved from neutral on the ST16S. The downward part works perfectly.

If I move the slider up, the camera should move up, with equivalent correlation with speed and slider position away from neutral. But this is only partly true.

For the first few millimeters of travel upward from neutral on the rear slider, nothing happens with the camera at all. And then with a little more upward movement of the slider, the camera actually starts to creep downward. (This is clearly incorrect behaviour). Continuing upward slightly beyond this point with the slider, the camera will suddenly then start to move upwards as expected.

Does that clarify my issue?

Thanks again for your help and patience.
 
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@Bob520 I think we're talking at crossed purposes.

I'm aware of how V mode accesses the upper few % of the camera position. However, my problem is not with that or how Angle and Velocity mode works. They make perfect sense.

In Velocity mode the rear slider has a neutral point in the mid-position. At this point the camera doesn't move either up or down, as expected, as this is the '0' velocity point with neither upward or downward velocity.

If I move the rear slider down from this central point, the camera moves down as expected. And the speed/velocity with which the camera moves down is in correlation to the distance the slider is moved from neutral on the ST16S. The downward part works perfectly.

If I move the slider up, the camera should move up, with equivalent correlation with speed and slider position away from neutral. But this is only partly true.

For the first few millimeters of travel upward from neutral on the rear slider, nothing happens with the camera at all. And then with a little more upward movement of the slider, the camera actually starts to creep downward. (This is clearly incorrect behaviour). Continuing upward slightly beyond this point with the slider, the camera will suddenly then start to move upwards as expected.

Does that clarify my issue?

Thanks again for your help and patience.
I think see where the breakdown is. When the S1 (V) position switch was designed for the 520, it was only designed to cause the camera to climb the extra 15-20°. It is not intended for vertical adjustment of the camera. S1 in the down position is designed for underside inspection and getting the extra degrees above horizontal. Which is why when you move the slider back up it does not correlate correctly to the angle. The camera thinks it hasn't reached the bottom degree of the slider before moving back horizontal. Try using the camera with the S1 in the middle position.
 
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I think see where the breakdown is. When the S1 (V) position switch was designed for the 520, it was only designed to cause the camera to climb the extra 15-20°. It is not intended for vertical adjustment of the camera. S1 in the down position is designed for underside inspection and getting the extra degrees above horizontal. Which is why when you move the slider back up it does not correlate correctly to the angle. The camera thinks it hasn't reached the bottom degree of the slider before moving back horizontal. Try using the camera with the S1 in the middle position.
@Bob520 I'm afraid that still doesn't make sense.

I appreciate with Velocity mode one can access the upper vertical angles not available in Angle mode, but the movement and reason you explain, etc doesn't stack up as it exhibits the effect at any point of the camera position (say, around 45 degrees, etc).

Also, that means every owner would be experiencing this, and yet @arruntus suggests he 'fixed' his suggesting his doesn't do this.

And even if it were only to access the upper percent of (negative) vertical camera angle, the behaviour still doesn't make sense within that range of motion.

This still feels like a 'bug' and not something designed deliberately, as:
  • it is counter intuitive
  • it is not consistent across range of motion (even within the upper percent)
  • it would be present on all H520 instances
  • it would be a waste of a valuable camera operation, as Angle mode doesn't allow smooth control of 'rate' of movement (which is the very definition of Velocity)

But maybe the above is actually true and not enough people have properly tested the camera to experience it. I don't know.

I really don't mean to sound rude, Bob, it just doesn't make sense to me.

It could be fixed by simply having the upward movement work the same way as the downward movement. Which would make sense.

To be fair, I'm also just a bit frustrated with the relatively poor software / experience of such an expensive piece of kit, and so little official support from Yuneec, etc.
 

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