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H520 E10Tv questions

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I am in the market for a thermal drone to use for property security and irrigation management in our vineyard, this will be my first UAV so pardon my ignorance. I have a $10,000 budget give or take and have been mainly looking at DJI Inspire 1 v2 Zenmuse XT 640 30hz setup but the H520 has caught my interest for a few reasons. I have read that it is quiet and compact which is why I have been drawn to this unit. Some questions I have are:

-Does anyone have hands on experience with the E10Tv 640 30hz yet and if so how does it compare to the Zenmuse XT? Would it be an unwise decision to get a brand new model like the E10T over the tried and true Zenmuse?

-I would like more info on the Nano Water Treatment that is being sold with the H520. Is this done through Yuneec or a third party vendor? Is it permanent or will it need to be reapplied? Does it carry a IPX rating?

-What is the difference with Yuneec's encrypted data vs DJI's? Also do UAV's transmit? RF, WiFi, ect.? Why is DJI's range so much further than Yuneec's?

Thank you for your help!
 

Steve Carr

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It would be difficult to make a comparison. The E10Tv is due to be released soon. The E10T version is available.
I assume you are looking at a used DJI Inspire 1 v2 Zenmuse XT 640 30hz. Otherwise the $10,000 budget is unrealistic.
Since you are new to piloting a UAV have you considered a starter model? A crash is almost inevitable and will be a very expensive repair with either of those cameras. The learning curve for a new pilot is steep.
Also, have you started looking at the FAA Part 107 requirements?

I would suggest a beginner model while you are in the process of obtaining your 107.
 
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It would be difficult to make a comparison. The E10Tv is due to be released soon. The E10T version is available.
I assume you are looking at a used DJI Inspire 1 v2 Zenmuse XT 640 30hz. Otherwise the $10,000 budget is unrealistic.
Since you are new to piloting a UAV have you considered a starter model? A crash is almost inevitable and will be a very expensive repair with either of those cameras. The learning curve for a new pilot is steep.
Also, have you started looking at the FAA Part 107 requirements?

I would suggest a beginner model while you are in the process of obtaining your 107.
Thank you for your reply. I was quoted $11,000 for a new DJI i1 w/ zenmuse xt 640. I have spend some time behind a DJI mavic and would rather not spend the money on a starter drone but I do plan on flying with a daylight camera till I am fully comfortable with the uav. I also have read and understand the laws.

Do you have any information on the nano water technology as this is the biggest reason I am drawn to this uav. I will be operating in a wet and dusty environment and the matrice is out of my price range.
 

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Do you have any information on the nano water technology
I have no experience with it but I think you could talk to this vendor for more information:

Glad to hear you have already gotten some airtime.
There are certainly differences in the two platforms. If you fly often in wind you will find the 520 is far superior. It also has a built in screen and no geo-fencing.
 
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My understanding is the camera is being sourced from FLIR. If you have a look at the Yuneec Israel Facebook page there are some thermal videos there. Definitely E10T, I think some are 640 res but the folks from Israel should be able to advise which is which and what lenses have been used.
 
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I have no experience with it but I think you could talk to this vendor for more information:

Glad to hear you have already gotten some airtime.
There are certainly differences in the two platforms. If you fly often in wind you will find the 520 is far superior. It also has a built in screen and no geo-fencing.
Thank you I will give them a call Monday.
 
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My understanding is the camera is being sourced from FLIR. If you have a look at the Yuneec Israel Facebook page there are some thermal videos there. Definitely E10T, I think some are 640 res but the folks from Israel should be able to advise which is which and what lenses have been used.
Thank you for the suggestion I watched some videos off of their page. I like the overlay feature that the E10T has, being able to switch between a day camera and IR is another benefit to Yuneec's UAV. If I were to go the DJI route I would need to purchase a Matrice w/ XT2 which is considerably more money. Thermal works great for locating but not identifying a target as I have learned while using NVD with thermal for predator hunting.
 
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The 640, depending on Lens selection can give you pretty good subject identification. The 320 is pretty good, 640 is twice as detailed. Given that the animals you are trying to identify are not going to be shooting at the drone you can pick a combination of lens, camera and operating height the will allow you to differentiate between small animals, cats, dogs and larger very easily. Yuneec Europe has a page showing different lenses on the 320 and the 160 but not the 640. That said the 320 with the right lens and working from the right height is pretty good. The link for Europe is https://www.yuneec.com/en_GB/accessories/cameras/drone-thermal-images.html.
 
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Several great points, suggestions and info regarding your questions...
I'd also suggest you visit the InspireForum for both Inspire & Matrice. Several discussions on the IR Thermal and there is a separate channel for Agriculture & Thermal. Lot of Ag and IR experts working the field that might provide additional insight. I realize you've ruled out the Matrice 210, but in long range usage you may want to consider.
Several M210's basically new condition being sold used at a large discount.... for Ag it remains a great option. The Inspire 1v2 is very popular in the resale market currently, easy to find practically new condition with major discount from new. Personally, I wouldn't consider purchasing a "new" Inspire 1v2 in 2019, to many available used in great shape.

I personally own an H520 and several other platforms including Inpire 1 & 2, Matrice 210 & 600Pro. I find the H520 a great platform with good potential currently limited by Yuneec, 3rd party development, 3rd party products, and uncertainty of market growth or support. I lean toward the optimistic that the H520 will improve or gain ground in usefulness; I purchased mine optimistically for where it may evolve than it's current capabilities.

The H520 is a stable craft and in comparison to the older Inspire 1v2 as previously indicated superior in high wind. Although for most field measuring, analyzing, inspecting you'll probably be flying in wind suitable to both platforms. The noise of the H520 does have a low pitch and low audible level compared to the Inspire 1v2, although the I1v2 with after market carbon props isn't a loud platform.

This next statement may just be preference or what one is accustomed. I prefer using tablets for my screen, I like tilting them differently than the radio for my hand comfort vs view. I prefer having the ability to install several apps on the tablet for different types of flight missions or tools to collect flight data. The start-up time of RC & Tablet... in my opinion is much quicker compared to the ST16 boot up & flight ready.

-I would like more info on the Nano Water Treatment that is being sold with the H520. Is this done through Yuneec or a third party vendor? Is it permanent or will it need to be reapplied? Does it carry a IPX rating?
The Nano Water treatment is a 3rd party... actually several make a nano water treatment in various name brands, spray and dip. A few, require the hardware to be sent to them for treatment. Any drone or electronics can be treated with Nano Water treatment, or other forms of water proofing.
This little clip may help answer a few or give a few directions to explore.
Water Proof Drone How to Electronics - Outstanding Drone
B&H list a H520 E90 with Nano Water treatment.
YUNEECH520 Bundle with Nano Water Treatment and E90

I am in the market for a thermal drone to use for property security and irrigation management in our vineyard, this will be my first UAV so pardon my ignorance. I have a $10,000 budget give or take and have been mainly looking at DJI Inspire 1 v2 Zenmuse XT 640 30hz setup but the H520 has caught my interest for a few reasons. I have read that it is quiet and compact which is why I have been drawn to this unit. Some questions I have are:

-Does anyone have hands on experience with the E10Tv 640 30hz yet and if so how does it compare to the Zenmuse XT? Would it be an unwise decision to get a brand new model like the E10T over the tried and true Zenmuse?

-What is the difference with Yuneec's encrypted data vs DJI's? Also do UAV's transmit? RF, WiFi, ect.? Why is DJI's range so much further than Yuneec's?
Thank you for your help!
IF you're planning to use for Ag & scanning the vineyard, you're eventually going to want to add a multispectral and NDVI camera to analyze plant health, fertilize, pesticides, insecticide, moisture, etc. This is another camera system that you can simply ad-hoc mount on a platform or incorporate it with the flight control... incorporating has it's benefits but is limited to brands that venders focus market.

To maintain consistency in images, GPS data for Ag equipment, chemical applications and ground coverage you'll want to utilize software tools for accurate autonomous flights.... this doesn't require the high cost of RTK to obtain extremely useful data. There are many Autonomous software options, several specialize for Ag. Most of these 3rd party products are designed for Matrice, Inspire, Mavic or specialized platforms.

As mentioned the Yuneec E10Tv hasn't been released yet... it's predicted to be in near future, but that's not always an accurate statement. There are a few threads that touched on the IR & E10T within the H520 channel that might be worth a glance. The comparison of the Zenmuse XT to the E10T or E10Tv isn't direct... The E10T & Tv have an RGB camera similar to the Zenmuse XT2. Although the XT2 is Advanced Radiometric, which comes at a large premium to the standard Flir. The XT comes in standard and advanced radiometric. There is "rumor", that Yuneec plans to release a Full Radiometric E10Tv-R 320 & 640... but that may be some time for market.
The cost of the full radiometric version will be much higher than the E10Tv which is listed on Vertigo Drones for $7500. The Zenmuse XT2 640 is often found (B&H Photo) for $12-13K. The E10Tv-R will probably be a little below the Zenmuse price line.
(pre-order link) Yuneec E10Tv50 (640-Pixel 8.7mm F/1.0 50°FOV)

I'm in a similar position, I've been waiting for the E10Tv-R 640 for verification of availability, price, supporting software, and performance & video. I know the zenmuse XT-R 640 & XT2 640 capabilities and software, which in my opinion Yuneec will need to match at a minimum. The advantage of the zenmuse cameras is multiple platforms and wide 3rd party support in both Ag & SAR, and if you change direction large resale market. You could purchase a XT 640 on a Inspire 1 then later use on a M210 with a dual gimbal mount along with a nice RGB or Z30, or on any custom build utilizing A3 & LB2 flight controller. The XT & XT2 fits on M210v1 or v2 or M600Pro and likey new platform while XT2 is current product.

The one benefit sight unseen of the E10Tv is the FLIR sensor. It's the newer sensor generation compared to the FlIR sensor in the XT & XT2. They have the exact same IR specs, but the new generation is faster, cooler and lower power consumption. But... this also tells me... my prediction since DJI has a stock interest in FLIR that a new Zenmuse is on the horizon which will drop the price of the current XT & XT2 whenever released.

End point on IR Thermal; the higher the resolution the better, if you can afford 640, get the 640. If you want to do any accurate isothermal readings, zero in on a small temp range or simply check temps at points of need, the Full Radiometric is required.

Radio reception, range & video clarity; You touched on an on-going discussion / debate. Is the longer range needed, is a popular point. I personally get nervous when a craft becomes hard to see and that isn't near DJI's useable range; although my perspective is more stability of signal is a positive. Along with extended range, in my opinion is improved signal stability throughout the distance. The DJI signal methodology for operating on the same 2.4 or 5.8 mHz does provide longer range and video stability. In Ag operations, you may fly low to crops and that can effect signal; and if you begin to run autonomous flight missions low to plant the need of accurate communication within autonomous software can be critical to a successful flight mission and aircraft control.

Few other points to chew on, Good Luck on your decision.
 
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FLIR is not owned by DJI. In fact, they have recently acquired a few companies, including Aeryon, a military and law enforcement grade UAV company out of Canada, which made them compliant for federal grants. They're also about to acquire Endeavor Robotics.
 
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Attended a session that was discussing the economic strengths of foreign companies, within that mentioned DJI as growing strength and stated DJI had a controlled interest in a company that held interest in FLIR and/or FLIR components. The gist of that segment of presentation was that it was a business tactic to gain interest in FLIR. A quick look at the FLIR 2018 annual report isn't recalling the middle company. Ownership not as entirety, although enough to have interest in the company. To correct... I'll edit above to "has a stock interest in FLIR".
 
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FLIR is not owned by DJI. In fact, they have recently acquired a few companies, including Aeryon, a military and law enforcement grade UAV company out of Canada, which made them compliant for federal grants. They're also about to acquire Endeavor Robotics.
I knew of the Aeryon and Prox Dynamics, just noticed the Endeavor Robotics and their UGV's.
 
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Few other points to chew on, Good Luck on your decision.
Thank you for taking the time to going into so much detail!

After speaking with a few dealers from both Yuneec and DJI I decided to go with a remanufactured Inspire 1 v2 that I found for $1000 ready to fly. I like the fact that I would be able to swap the Zenmuse XT to the matrice as I do plan on upgrading down the road when the price drops. Once I found out the nano treatment was done third party and could be applied to any drone it was a easy decision to make.

I am going to get some fly time before I add the thermal on this UAV but from what I am being told by some dealers DJI will be stopping production of the XT in place of a newer model. I will definitely be going with a 640 radiometeric.

Multi spectrum cameras is something I will look at later on. We have a Pesticide Chem Advisor that sends scouts out in the field with some pretty amazing accuracy, but as always we are looking at ways to reduce labor and costs. For now my main projects will be irrigation management and mapping a new 700 acre property for vineyard development, dictating waterfowl, ect.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to going into so much detail!

After speaking with a few dealers from both Yuneec and DJI I decided to go with a remanufactured Inspire 1 v2 that I found for $1000 ready to fly. I like the fact that I would be able to swap the Zenmuse XT to the matrice as I do plan on upgrading down the road when the price drops. Once I found out the nano treatment was done third party and could be applied to any drone it was a easy decision to make.

I am going to get some fly time before I add the thermal on this UAV but from what I am being told by some dealers DJI will be stopping production of the XT in place of a newer model. I will definitely be going with a 640 radiometeric.

Multi spectrum cameras is something I will look at later on. We have a Pesticide Chem Advisor that sends scouts out in the field with some pretty amazing accuracy, but as always we are looking at ways to reduce labor and costs. For now my main projects will be irrigation management and mapping a new 700 acre property for vineyard development, dictating waterfowl, ect.
Outstanding... heck of a nice entry point price for you! Leaves plenty of reserve to grow as you go. If it came with the X3, Z3 or X5... any of those will provide acceptable images to provide a good learning toolset while you experiment with various programs. Plus, even as you upgrade the I1v2 will continue to serve in secondary roles.

A 700 acre piece is a great opportunity for mapping and terrain modeling. Check out Maps made Easy or UgCS, they both have a terrain mapping feature for grade & slopes. I’m just getting into UgCS... very powerful tool. For above 300-400 acre, you might want to add a VTOL to your future inventory... they do multi spectrum very good. One Sample would be Wintra.

I’d agree a new zenmuse thermal is in the near future, great for us wanting to save on XT & XT2. Watch the Inspire Forum, normally in late Fall - Winter several great prices crop up on XT, XT2 and M210... particularly since the v2 recently came out... several will be wanting to unload their M210v1 to Upgrade. For my needs, I’m content with the v1, plus it’ll support the TB50 & TB55 where v2 only TB55... big $$ difference and the TB50 goes with I2 & M210.

The Ag sUAV is really taking off and amazing what it provides and incorporates with platers, sprayers, etc.

Not a huge need in MidWest, but have you looked / read about the larger scale drones used to spray... I read several USA vineyards were beginning to use them, very popular in Asian Ag. I understand they require additional certifications to fly based on applying chemicals.
 
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Found a few links on the Ag sprayer... one example.
Has a new 1S version released too.
Even if not in the plans... interesting read where Ag drones are developing... expensive, but also reasonable compared to just a few years ago or to cost of using conventional means if not wanting to disturb crop ground.


 

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On multispectral, I was impressed with several brands, but recently discovered SlantRange... believe considered market leader. SlantRange Sensors - Multispectral Sensors for Agriculture Data
I didn't know them, good find. Now there are more options and that's always good.

It happened to me with the thermal camera. Flir the best brand.....and total disappointment, other manufacturers with better sensors and cheaper............ We learn by hitting :(
 
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Found a few links on the Ag sprayer... one example.
Has a new 1S version released too.
Even if not in the plans... interesting read where Ag drones are developing... expensive, but also reasonable compared to just a few years ago or to cost of using conventional means if not wanting to disturb crop ground.



I do think it is very cool to see drones developing but we are too large scale to implement something like this. Generally 100 gallons of mixed chemical will spray 10 acres of a planted vineyard for herbicide and that is just x2 16" strips under the drip hose, the rest will be disc in or mowed. For insecticide's we must spray the entire canopy which means a much higher gallon per min. I am not sure if they are using sensors to detect problem areas and only spraying those but this would not make sense to me. If a plant is infested with something like mites it will not show signs of damage for a certain amount of time so if you are only spraying what is showing damage it will be a constant game of catch up. I believe you would also need something close to the license a crop duster would need.
 
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I didn't know them, good find. Now there are more options and that's always good.

It happened to me with the thermal camera. Flir the best brand.....and total disappointment, other manufacturers with better sensors and cheaper............ We learn by hitting :(
Ahhh, you have my attention; Always a learning ear... what FLIR did you experiment with and what brand did you discover a better solution? I've looked at Fluke and Seek... and the Hti-Xintal HT-A02 320 Thermal & 640 RGB handheld looks like a nice handheld but pricey @ $630. Amazon.com: 320 x 240 IR Resolution Thermal Camera, Pocket-Sized Infrared Camera with 76800 Pixels Real-Time Thermal Image, Temperature Measurement Range -4°F to 572°F,Mini IR Thermal Imager,Hti-Xintai: Gateway

As you probably saw over on other forum... I tried the Flir One Pro (160) Radiometric to use with phone screen. Now that was a disappointment... not so much 160 MSX, was expecting that one.. but performance, pallets, and battery life were primary negatives.

Then tried the Anafi-T (Flir 160) and it's Parrot software was a disappointment, and again performance, screen movement and response were below acceptable... but that's been commented several times in reviews too, nothing new. Returned both, will experiment with M2EDual to see how upscaling thermal & MSX work together.

As a alternative to Zenmuse XT, this one was an interesting read... may need to explore.

The ICI brand make excellent FLIR alternatives.
They look to be offering various UAV and a Sensor Control Module that appears to be adaptable to many platforms & gimbals.

They also make their own carbon platform... 8 - 22" prop, uses DJI A3/Lightbridge 2 electronics so should be similar to interfacing with a M600pro but with non-ZenMuse Thermals. Found one on eBay for $30K.

There's several Chineese outfits that appear to be making nice units too.
 

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