Is the camera as bad as people say? Take two!

Keith Harris · Jul 16, 2016

Hi guys
I posted this a minute ago that in the wrong place so I apologise if you have already read this
My friend and I have been looking at the H to get us started in setting up a small aerial film company. We have managed to borrow one from an acquaintance but we are concerned having watched a number of reviews about the clarity of the H's camera. I am into my gadgets and understand about the bit rate issue.

Are these numbers for the video modes correct?
natural 38 MB/S
gorgeous 50 MB/S
raw 24 MB/S
night 50 MB/S

So raw really doesn't mean raw in the conventional sense? That's totally misleading!

When shooting video I want a bland image which makes it easier to colour grade in post production. Having done a few tests in the last few days all the presets seem to be over saturated and therefore difficult to colour grade. Can you suggest a way to turn down the saturation? Having looked at theP4 we would ideally like a mode similar to the D-log.

We have also noticed that the camera has a distinct problem when looking at a bright sky it makes the ground look very dark. when you lower the angle of the camera it alters the white balance and saturation of the image without me telling it to. This is not a good trait as you need a consistent light level no matter what you are looking at.

We are also noticing when the H is hovering it drifts in all directions. Is anyone else having this problem?

I guess it comes down to whether the Yuneec can resolve these issues in updates or Should we be looking at the Phantom 4. This is a bitter disappointment because we have got to know the guys at Yuneec UK quite well and there customer service is the best!

Any advice would be welcomed

JCFlippen · Jul 16, 2016

For commercial work the 6 motor redundancy will become more important for CAA Manual and Insurance reasons as time goes by.

The camera needs time spent on it to learn the best settings. With care it can produce very acceptable pictures if you get a camera with a correctly aligned lens. Plenty of comments on this subject in this forum.

snerd · Jul 16, 2016

Yes, all of the presets are over-saturated. But the "raw" setting will give you a VERY bland file. I'm just not sure it's a true raw format, as the size is so small.

Tuna · Jul 16, 2016

OK, the numbers mean very little because the CGO3+ uses a variable rate codec - unlike the GoPro for instance which always outputs a fixed rate, even if nothing is happening. So you can't measure the camera 'quality' that way.

The CGO3+ will output up to 50Mbs (and possibly more) if the scene has a lot of active detail - so you won't see any video artifacts due to low bit rates. It's a perfectly good quality codec.

In RAW mode, the CGO3+ doesn't apply any artifical sharpening (that's why it's raw - it's straight out of the camera, ready for you to adjust in your video editor). That means it can have a lower bitrate than the non-raw profiles which will take the same scene and sharpen it, add contrast and so on. It's actually giving you more information to use, but that suits the codec and you'll see lower bitrates.

Finally, the defaul modes of auto everything are a disaster if you want to professionally grade and edit video. Lock white balance and go to manual exposure and you're much better off.

In all cases, swinging between full sunlight and ground will challenge a camera - try to film in a consistent direction and a scene with consistent lighting.

(Oh, there's also some noise from people on here who are upset that the early claims of 100Mb/s are not what they see on their files. Those claims from Yuneec were misleading, but it doesn't stop the camera from being pretty good. I'm currently exploring how much the new firmware changes it's output)

Keith Harris · Jul 16, 2016

So even though the image looks out of focus In raw, when I run it through Adobe speed grade or da Vinci resolve I can sharpen the image up?

Is it worth changing the lens in the cgo3?

I must say I am really confused about whether the H is worth the risk or whether to go with a proven DJI system.

JCFlippen · Jul 16, 2016

Think redundancy .. who ever makes your selected craft.

Tuna · Jul 16, 2016

Keith Harris said:
So even though the image looks out of focus In raw, when I run it through Adobe speed grade or da Vinci resolve I can sharpen the image up?
.

Exactly. Here's a video I shot that way:

Personally I feel the differences between the DJI and Typhoon for video quality are not going to make or break your business. You need to be able to find good subjects, know how to frame and shoot them, make sure you're there at the right time of day in the right conditions and all the other things filmmakers worry about long before the quality of the camera starts to be important.

The Typhoon has some very useful team modes (make sure you get the Wizard) which opens up your choices when it comes to filming, and you may well benefit from buying some filters, but the tiny improvement you'll get from spending on a different lens won't really mean much to most people.

The bottom line is, if you really want top video quality at any expense, don't buy any machine with a small sensor and fixed lens - that rules out anything under about $3000. But the first thing you need is talent, experience and hard work - look at how many successful photographers and film makers started off with the most basic of kit.

TopFlightTexas · Jul 16, 2016

A couple of filters and well adjusted manual settings; combined with a true artist's eye, touch, and feel . . . can turn the CGO3+ from a bland shot to a grand shot.

CAPTAINDRONE · Jul 16, 2016

Keith Harris said:
Are these numbers for the video modes correct?
natural 38 MB/S
gorgeous 50 MB/S
raw 24 MB/S
night 50 MB/S

So raw really doesn't mean raw in the conventional sense? That's totally misleading!

When shooting video I want a bland image which makes it easier to colour grade in post production. Having done a few tests in the last few days all the presets seem to be over saturated and therefore difficult to colour grade. Can you suggest a way to turn down the saturation? Having looked at theP4 we would ideally like a mode similar to the D-log.

We have also noticed that the camera has a distinct problem when looking at a bright sky it makes the ground look very dark. when you lower the angle of the camera it alters the white balance and saturation of the image without me telling it to. This is not a good trait as you need a consistent light level no matter what you are looking at.

We are also noticing when the H is hovering it drifts in all directions. Is anyone else having this problem?

Any advice would be welcomed

Easy answers:

- The data bit rate numbers are not exactly correct. The max bitrate is 50 for GORGEOUS. NATURAL is not far behind at around 49. RAW is around 39.
- For post processing you must film in NATURAL or RAW.
- To make pro looking films where the exposure does not keep changing you must film in Manual and set the exposure to slightly below horizon.
- The H does hovering & drift at low altitudes because the H Advanced model lacks the IPS that the Phantom 4 has. Phantom 4 and Typhoon H will both move drift/hover same distance at 50 feet or more.

I hope to have a simple quick tutorial video out within the week that explains how to get pro footage using the very simplistic camera settings Yuneec has included.

Rayray · Jul 16, 2016

Tuna hit the nail on the head. If you are a pro and want pro quality, I suggest you look at DJI's M-600 or the equivalent.

Tuna · Jul 16, 2016

CAPTAINDRONE said:
Easy answers:

- The data bit rate numbers are not exactly correct. The max bitrate is 50 for GORGEOUS. NATURAL is not far behind at around 49. RAW is around 39.

I'm not sure how you got these figures - I don't believe the camera limits bitrates in any mode, they can all go up to the same maximum (whatever it is - no-one is quite sure). All you can do is look at videos, and the bitrate will depend on the video content (because it's variable). It's a bit like saying the fuel economy on a Ford Pickup is X because the best I've seen in my Ford Pickup is X. The actual figure depends on your driving.

I'm happy to be told otherwise, but I've not seen any technical documents on the CGO3+ that specify hard bitrates.

uptowndisco · Jul 16, 2016

This is the video info on a Yuneec H recording setting natural at 4K

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 49s
Source duration : 1mn 49s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 47.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 50.0 Mbps
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.193
Stream size : 623 MiB (100%)
Source stream size : 623 MiB (100%)
Title : Yuneec AVC
Language : English
Color range : Full
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
mdhd_Duration : 109109

CAPTAINDRONE · Jul 16, 2016

Tuna said:
I'm not sure how you got these figures - I don't believe the camera limits bitrates in any mode, they can all go up to the same maximum (whatever it is - no-one is quite sure). All you can do is look at videos, and the bitrate will depend on the video content (because it's variable). It's a bit like saying the fuel economy on a Ford Pickup is X because the best I've seen in my Ford Pickup is X. The actual figure depends on your driving.

I'm happy to be told otherwise, but I've not seen any technical documents on the CGO3+ that specify hard bitrates.

Correct. I had taken video today of the exact same scene in all three image modes. Bit rates I posted are from those videos. Since it was the same scene, my results, variable or not, is that there is a difference. I've never seen the bitrate go above 50.... ever.

Tuna · Jul 16, 2016

CAPTAINDRONE said:
Correct. I had taken video today of the exact same scene in all three image modes. Bit rates I posted are from those videos. Since it was the same scene, my results, variable or not, is that there is a difference. I've never seen the bitrate go above 50.... ever.

That makes sense. The way you worded it, it sounded like those were official figures rather than an individual test.

In general, the more sharpening you add to a video, the higher the bandwidth (bitrate) will be - which is why the artificial modes take up more than the raw. Codecs are much better at compressing the smoother content of raw video, without loosing any detail. You can sharpen as much as you want in your editor afterwards.

DroneClone · Jul 16, 2016

DerStig · Jul 16, 2016

Keith Harris said:
My friend and I have been looking at the H to get us started in setting up a small aerial film company. We have managed to borrow one from an acquaintance but we are concerned having watched a number of reviews about the clarity of the H's camera. I am into my gadgets and understand about the bit rate issue.

Are these numbers for the video modes correct?
natural 38 MB/S
gorgeous 50 MB/S
raw 24 MB/S
night 50 MB/S

So raw really doesn't mean raw in the conventional sense? That's totally misleading!

What sort of Aerial Film company are you setting up? What is your target customer?

The CGO3+ is not a good camera, it's image is easily surpassed by a GoPro hero 4 black. The stock lens is low resolution and the color space of the camera is oddly tuned. The internal metering is pretty bad as is the exposure stepping. The camera gets easily confused on white balance and since Yuneecs "Raw" isn't you have some baked in color issues. In pretty much every other camera system the RAW is the largest file and here its the smallest and that's NOT a good thing.

The dual operator implementation is equally as bad. Using the Wizard is not a good way to be the camera ship pilot. You need dual ST16's . The closed source software is also a problem especially if you want to do mapping

Right now you can get a DJI Inspire 1 V1 for ~$1500 and you have the ability to grow into the X5r The X3 camera is also much better than the CGO3+ image quality wise.

Mickeyboo · Jul 16, 2016

Rayray said:
Tuna hit the nail on the head. If you are a pro and want pro quality, I suggest you look at DJI's M-600 or the equivalent.

I disagree perhaps for a pro that stays at home that's a good choice, but the smaller footprint drones sail thru customs and if I'm shooting news or a controversial story I want to do it with a low key approach...deployment of the larger craft is also slower
and often times I need to fly very low with a minimum of prop (rotor) wash so that subject is not disturbed...they're too big I had a hex and flew a Canon 5D M3...big headache...Ideal would be H footprint with larger sensor and better lens, which only has to be one or two versions away. I'm struck by how the industry doesn't seem to recognize the gaping hole in the product range...but Yuneec is getting closer than DJI this round...I've flown in Iceland, the Amazon Basin, Nicaragua, and Ecuador