Mixing Typhoon H (CGO3+) Footage with a Cinema Camera (video quality test)
- Thread starter Frankie
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You make a good point about the GH4’s source output being one number, and then the Ninja just “disguising” it in a ProRes wrapper with a seemingly higher bit rate. But I did some more reading about the Ninja, and I think I found the answer to this. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you’re assuming that when footage is recorded onto the GH4's sensor it first goes through the internal codec where it is essentially compressed to a bit rate of either 200Mbps or 100Mbps, then outputted to the Ninja (where it’s “rebranded” in a way) to a ProRes codec with a false bit rate.
If this was the case then the video files from the Ninja would have less data then claimed (as stated in the video properties section). But, this isn’t how the Ninja actually records video. What it does is take uncompressed footage directly from the sensor of the GH4 and transfers it to the Ninja through an HDMI cable. This process completely bypasses any internal compression and allows for maximum data retention in the form of a ProRes codec with a high bit rate. So basically the GH4 is only being used to see the image or subject that you’re filming, but the Ninja does all the heavy lifting by actually recording the footage to a high capacity SSD card. This is why when the Ninja is connected to the GH4 and set to 4:2:2 10-bit, the GH4 is unable to record anything. The internal SD card is just too small/weak to take in all that data.
If you’re interested, here are the links to a couple websites that probably explain this way better than I do:
- Atomos Ninja Assassin
- B&H Article
(A few screenshots from the above websites)
I hope this helps to clear up any questions we may have had about this subject. And of course if another great point is made, I’ll be interested in finding out more about it, since the ultimate goal of this forum/discussion is to increase our overall knowledge. I just hope any future responses I may post can relate to the original topic of this discussion.
Hey, I shot this in raw and have attempted to grade the footage and sharpen. Can I have some constructive criticism please. I havent got ND filters yet so the exposure was all over the place. Ive been pretty bummed out reading this forum over the past view days with criticism of the camera and wondering if I have made the right choice.
Anyway opinions please - is this decent footage?
It's very natural, looks good to me. The lighting conditions change a little from shot to shot which I guess is hard to avoid - so some of the shots done when the lighting is flatter could perhaps do with a contrast boost. Otherwise I'd be pretty happy with that - it's a great location to explore from the air.
Thanks for taking the time to view and respond. I have been pretty pleased with what Ive got, but reading the posts around here I've been worried I wont get good enough shots etc.
Just a small tidbit of info for people new to editing, if you are going to combine your H footage into other footage you need to color correct each shot THEN color grade the overall scene. Shots can change even on just the H footage depending on the sun, time of day you shot it etc...
There is a difference between correction and grading. Different steps. Can even be a separate skill set (job) in the pro community from my understanding.
Color correcting is taking all the footage from the H and from another camera, and correcting it, shot by shot, to be as good as it can be. You adjust each shot so they are a nice image that matches the overall look, feel and color range of the other shots in the scene.
Then you grade all of that to have the film look, add minor grain etc.. etc...
There is a difference between correction and grading. Different steps. Can even be a separate skill set (job) in the pro community from my understanding.
Color correcting is taking all the footage from the H and from another camera, and correcting it, shot by shot, to be as good as it can be. You adjust each shot so they are a nice image that matches the overall look, feel and color range of the other shots in the scene.
Then you grade all of that to have the film look, add minor grain etc.. etc...
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The short answer to your question about whether or not your footage is decent is YES it’s very decent, in fact I think it’s really good. Individually, you have some great shots there; and as a whole, it’s pretty good as it stands.
Some things I really liked:
- The sharpness throughout the video
[It wasn’t overly sharp, but at the same time you can clearly make out almost everything in the frame without it feeling “artificial”]
- For the most part the exposure was pretty dead on(as far as individual clips go)
[Nothing looked overexposed, and only 1 or 2 clips had some crushed blacks within the frame]
- The scene looked very natural and true to color
[The saturation and contrast seemed to be on point, with only a few variations here and there]
Some things that were good, but could maybe use a little polishing up:
"Minor differences between clips"
- Exposure [As you already stated the overall exposure was a little spotty throughout the video, but even without an ND filter, you can usually rely on shutter speed to help close the “exposure gap” among different shots. Also, in post you may be able to fine tune these subtle variations and match exposure by adding some whites, blacks, shadows, mids, etc...]
- Contrast [Again, this was pretty good throughout the video; however I did notice that some of the higher elevation shots looked a little washed out (which is something you can’t really avoid unfortunately). But to compensate, you could try increasing the contrast for these shots which will help blend everything together.]
- Color matching [This is a tough one, but trying to match the color (as well as matching the light source “a.k.a. the sun”) can go a long way to adding fluidity and continuity to your video. The basic answer to color matching this type of footage is to add some reds/oranges to cloudy shots, and then add in some blue tones to sunny shots, but that can only get you so far. To really sell this effect, it helps to try and film all your shots at the same time of day (or at least with the sun facing the same direction within the shots). This can take quite some time to do, but again it will add a lot of “production value” to your overall video if done right.]
A few tips to help your footage really pop, and stand out from the crowd: (unrelated to color correcting/grading)
- Try filming shots that are closer to ground level
[Over the years basically everyone has seen some sort of footage from a helicopter, whether it’s in a movie or on the news or somewhere else, but either way our brains have become used to seeing wide open aerial shots. What really peaks our interest is seeing footage that we know a helicopter can’t get, a.k.a. flying your drone at low altitudes or even flying it through/or under something.] *Obviously take extreme caution if you decide to do this, as you don’t want anything to happen to your $1,300 investment.
- Try maneuvering your Typhoon H in different ways to get unique shots
[Everyone knows the basic fly forward and camera pan, but to add some depth to your footage, try mixing things up a little bit. This can be as simple as flying backwards with the camera revealing something in the shot, or raising/lowering altitude with the camera pointed in a strange, yet unique way. Another great thing to utilize is curved cable cam, as you can independently move the camera to get cool looking shots that otherwise would be hard to get.]
- Utilize “Golden Hour” to get shots that have great contrast and complexity
[Golden Hour refers to the hour’s right after sunrise and right before sunset, which give you the greatest amount of contrast within a shot while still providing soft light that shapes around a particular subject. This is very useful when you want to make an otherwise mediocre shot look more interesting.] *You had a really good example of using the sun to project contrast into the shot at 3:41 in your video
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Really want to thank you Frankie for taking the time to view my video and reply. Its nice to have some positive views on the camera as around here lately it has been pretty negative. I wished I had varied my shots up abit and kicked myself for not flying in reverse but luckily its only about 20 mins from me so I can redo anytime. I'm still getting used to the Typhoon H so I'm working my way up to flying close to objects. I also have GH4 too and will be mixing shots with that as you have been doing so getting good at colour correction and grading is gonna be useful. Been checking your stuff on youtube - I share your dream of wanting to be a full time film maker - keep up the good work
I also recommend using an ND8 filter on most sunny days. You can drop down to ND4 if there is no direct sun and it is more overcast but bright.
The exception would be a completely overcast day of course. That would be the 4 or none usually.
ND16 pretty dark so I would use that on really sunny days. Shots that go in and out of the sun may still require the 8. Depends.
Of course this varies, there are no hard fast rules, every day and condition requires judgement.
Point is a good ND filter can really improve your footage.
The exception would be a completely overcast day of course. That would be the 4 or none usually.
ND16 pretty dark so I would use that on really sunny days. Shots that go in and out of the sun may still require the 8. Depends.
Of course this varies, there are no hard fast rules, every day and condition requires judgement.
Point is a good ND filter can really improve your footage.
So is this following correct -
To prevent 'blooming' (when the camera automatically adjusts exposure when switching between the dark and light parts of a shot)
You need to go into manual mode and fix the shutter speed at approx twice the frame rate. However this makes things far too bright in daylight so you put an ND filter on to reduce the light.
ND filters will not prevent blooming if auto exposure settings are still used
To prevent 'blooming' (when the camera automatically adjusts exposure when switching between the dark and light parts of a shot)
You need to go into manual mode and fix the shutter speed at approx twice the frame rate. However this makes things far too bright in daylight so you put an ND filter on to reduce the light.
ND filters will not prevent blooming if auto exposure settings are still used
Pretty much but the reason for shutter speed twice the frame rate is to produce a natural amount of blur on moving objects in the video, not really anything to do with exposure. If you are not bothered about motion blur then you should use whatever shutter speed that will give the correct exposure.
That's my understanding and I don't claim to be an expert.
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After reading all the posts bashing the CGO3+, it is refreshing to see what a pro can do with a fairly cheap video camera. As a still photographer, I have learned over the years that a camera is just a tool, how you manage both the tool, the lighting, and subject matter is what makes a standout image. A hammer in the hand of an amateur will not have the same results as the same hammer in the hands of a skilled carpenter. Thanks for that beautiful video.
PatR
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Frankie,
Great work and please don't stop! It's wonderful to see someone here with the skills and willingness to help and encourage people to do good work instead of continually denigrating others and their equipment. You have the marks of a true professional and are very appreciated. It's a pleasure to watch your videos.
Great work and please don't stop! It's wonderful to see someone here with the skills and willingness to help and encourage people to do good work instead of continually denigrating others and their equipment. You have the marks of a true professional and are very appreciated. It's a pleasure to watch your videos.
I love your color grading, the sky and ground pop better than they would in reality, which makes the end result great looking! The sharpen effect looks perfect as well.
I can see the camera has that typical focus issues on the upper left, but your post processing makes everything look so good that most people wouldn't even notice. Well done!
That was really nice. I love the movement, how it hides behind the scenes. Colors look over saturated, but I like that look.
What in the heck did you do differently at 3:40. The focus and detail popped out very nicely. Do you remember the settings - automatic or manual...
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