Awesome! Thanks for the heads up on Video Copilot. I'll check it out and start educating myself.
Great idea starting this thread!
Great idea starting this thread!
Photography and Videography Discussion Den
- Thread starter Ty Pilot
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It's very clear how moving the camera adds a since of depth and perspective that is impossible to achieve rotating the camera on a fixed tripod. I like it!
Also, it's clear from the video that you don't need to spend thousands of dollars to create excellent video content. Spend the money on travel instead.
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Okay so I posted a New Video for the Typhoon H about using Trim Function and while many of the shots are from the LX10, a few were shot using the Crane Gimbal as well. In particular some of the B-Roll shots, where a close up of an item was shown using a real slow slide past near the item. Normally these shots would require a dedicated slide but in a pinch you can get nearly the same type of feeling with a gimbal and a tripod by cranking the head over horizontally. This gives just enough extension that you can't discern an arc in the movement for short distances. This could also be achieved without a gimbal as long as you extend a mount at least a few feet from the center of the tripod.
You'll notice a rubber band on the tripods' handle - here is an old trick that still works well today. If you want to get smooth panning shots on a tripod; set the friction so it takes a good pound or two pull to move it, but attach a rubber band to the handle and pull that. This reduces any slight inconsistencies from the operator as it acts like a shock absorber.
TRIPOD IN NORMAL CONFIGURATION
TRIPOD IN SLIDE CONFIGURATION
You'll notice a rubber band on the tripods' handle - here is an old trick that still works well today. If you want to get smooth panning shots on a tripod; set the friction so it takes a good pound or two pull to move it, but attach a rubber band to the handle and pull that. This reduces any slight inconsistencies from the operator as it acts like a shock absorber.
TRIPOD IN NORMAL CONFIGURATION
TRIPOD IN SLIDE CONFIGURATION
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Nicely done (Trim video).
I've been using the rubber band trick for a while. It works so much better than hand panning.
Clever glide idea without gimbal. Do you usually use the gimbal on a tripod?
I've been using the rubber band trick for a while. It works so much better than hand panning.
Clever glide idea without gimbal. Do you usually use the gimbal on a tripod?
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No, not necessarily, I got the gimbal to get more fluid shots while maneuvering handheld. I'm working on a sort of "Video Template" that I want to market to Realtors that comprises both the aerial and interior still shots we normally take along with video, both air and ground - the gimbal is for ground video - like walk throughs and simulated fly throughs. As for this new gimbal, I'm still in the "discovery" stage of what is possible, and the slide shot with gimbal I had heard about and thought I would try it on the new video. I like it enough that I will probably use it again.
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The exposure triangle, er line - better yet - Node.
A lot of folks that will read this know much or all of what I'm going to discuss but perhaps some haven't so here is a some simple thoughts on using our flying cameras.
In Photography and video, the exposure triangle is at the heart of getting any image.
Three aspects; Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed are combined in various different amounts and measures to yield an end result. Much like ingredients in a pie; get them right and the pie will not disappoint; get it wrong and no one will have a second slice.
The good news for us is that we are really only dealing with two ingredients (shutter speed and ISO) while the third (aperture) is already in the mix - our CG03+ has a fixed aperture. So, the question then becomes; how much of each remaining ingredient and why? To get to this answer we need to ask what kind of pie are we intending to make?
Photos or Videos. First lets look at video and I'm just going to ramble for a bit so forgive me but I think this is important. Motion blur. Motion blur is one of those elements that at first we think its a bad thing, something to eliminate, a sign of poor filming perhaps? Actually it was the ability to reproduce motion blur digitally; that gave rise to CG or computer graphics in the film industry. Outside of a few films in the eighties and a sprinkling of films in the 70's all special effects were "In Camera" meaning they were using things like mirrors, wire, and models to make the viewer believe what they saw, but the special effect was filmed - not created.
One of the earliest special effects was called - Stop Motion, later it was called "Claymation" and then further down the road it was - Go Motion. Basically this is taking a model and ever so slightly manipulate the movement by hand then take a single picture - then do so over and over 24 times and bingo - you've got one second of film. The original King Kong was one of the first such movies; and to see that today, it clearly looks to our eyes as if they could have done a better job. The truth is; when you have movement there should be blur and in no frame of the entire movie was any of the action blurred even slightly in a single frame - except for the actual actors and anything filmed in camera. In the example below which is a single frame from the movie the producers at least knew enough about blur that they just decided it looked better not to even have a propeller on the model aircraft.
One of the last and greatest examples of Go Motion was 1980's - The Empire Strikes Back. The scene where the big metal camels were walking slowly towards the rebel base - the walkers - all done one frame at a time, on a set, and in camera. It is interesting to note that the intentional slow movement of the walkers written into in the script masked the fact that they still could not blur the movement and while that scene still looks pretty good today - something is missing - Motion Blur.
But I digress. The point is; when that ingredient (Motion Blur) is missing, even in minute amounts, the viewer can sense it if not - flat out know it. Whether its photos or film a sense of movement adds depth.
So this brings us full circle back to the Exposure debate and is indeed the foundational reason for two important aspects when recording video. Most know that the rule of thumb for shooting video is; you want a shutter speed that is twice that of your frames per second. But why? First you want an even light distribution across all frames, at twice the frame rate, the ideal exposure pulse is in the center of one frame and at the end/beginning of the next frame and so on. But more importantly; the longer you can expose the sensor to light, the greater the depth of color and detail will be exposed. Think of it like a printer - ever looked at the difference when printing a photo at fast draft and then at highest quality? The longer an image is exposed to the camera's sensor the better it will be recorded.
So regardless of the FPS (frames per second) you want to set the shutter speed at double or as close as possible. So for 30 FPS video we want a shutter speed at 1/60th of a second - 24 FPS gets a 1/50th of a second shutter speed and so on. Okay so where does this put us? We've got a fixed aperture, we've locked our shutter speed and so we basically are shooting shutter priority - what's left is the final ingredient - but there is another aspect. How can this be, there are only three ingredients right? So if there is another do we have a Square, an Exposure Square? Nope, we're just going to cook one of the ingredients; separately, before adding it to the mix - ND Filters.
Without the ND filter, our pie will never come out right unless we shoot in a studio where every aspect of light can be controlled and I'm pretty sure this ain't happening. So we have a pretty big aperture of 2.8 pouring light onto the sensor and to make matters worse we're letting the shutter stay open about as long as possible at 1/60th of a second and the ISO setting is at its least sensitive setting at 100; which when you get right down to it is the ideal settings for video, I mean if we could just turn the light down a little before it enters the camera. . . .ding, ding, ding.
Okay so everyone knows the ND Filter is a must if you want to get the lighting and exposure right for video but is there is a secondary benefit from using ND filters? Yes, motion blur, subtle it is, but it needs to be there. When we think of motion blur we think of a fast moving object such as a motorcycle speeding by and becoming a blur, but what if the camera follows the bike and the background is blurred - which one gives the feeling of speed?
Now that is a graphic example of how we interpret blur at the extremes, but the same holds true even at slower speeds. When we are flying over a landscape, there should be subtle blur on each frame as the landscape passes beneath. If its there it will look to our eyes as natural and if not, the scene may look odd. We've all heard of jello video, which occurs when a rolling shutter at very high shutter speed is coupled with high frequency vibration and the result is the image registered on the sensor appears to wave. But there can be more subtle registration anomalies that can be eliminated with an ND filter.
So how do you pick the right ND filter? As a simple guide; after booting up the controller and aircraft and connecting to the camera, go into manual mode, set your IS0 at 100 and then scroll through the shutter speeds and see when the scene exposure looks about right. You can also use the histogram as a guide (I'll get into this in another post). Now take a look at what the shutter speed is. Below is what I have found are my points for different ND filters
From 1/200th up to 1/400th = ND4...............Low light, early morning, late evening
From 1/400th up to 1/800th = ND8......................Medium light, mid day but cloudy
Above 1/800 = ND16...........................Bright sunlight, mid day, blue sky, no clouds
Some Tips:
Remember that there will be times when; with a selected ND filter, the exposure at the proper shutter speed is over or under exposed. Its always better that it is slightly underexposed as you can raise the ISO (Light Sensitivity) slightly and not loose image quality or induce noise up until about 540 or so. If it is over exposed- go up to the next ND and check again - if you can stay under 540 on the ISO you're good to go if not (and this is not likely), go back down an ND filter and you can raise the shutter speed, but always by double - 30 FPS shutter speed; Best 1/60th - Next 1/120th
A lot of folks that will read this know much or all of what I'm going to discuss but perhaps some haven't so here is a some simple thoughts on using our flying cameras.
In Photography and video, the exposure triangle is at the heart of getting any image.
Three aspects; Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed are combined in various different amounts and measures to yield an end result. Much like ingredients in a pie; get them right and the pie will not disappoint; get it wrong and no one will have a second slice.
The good news for us is that we are really only dealing with two ingredients (shutter speed and ISO) while the third (aperture) is already in the mix - our CG03+ has a fixed aperture. So, the question then becomes; how much of each remaining ingredient and why? To get to this answer we need to ask what kind of pie are we intending to make?
Photos or Videos. First lets look at video and I'm just going to ramble for a bit so forgive me but I think this is important. Motion blur. Motion blur is one of those elements that at first we think its a bad thing, something to eliminate, a sign of poor filming perhaps? Actually it was the ability to reproduce motion blur digitally; that gave rise to CG or computer graphics in the film industry. Outside of a few films in the eighties and a sprinkling of films in the 70's all special effects were "In Camera" meaning they were using things like mirrors, wire, and models to make the viewer believe what they saw, but the special effect was filmed - not created.
One of the earliest special effects was called - Stop Motion, later it was called "Claymation" and then further down the road it was - Go Motion. Basically this is taking a model and ever so slightly manipulate the movement by hand then take a single picture - then do so over and over 24 times and bingo - you've got one second of film. The original King Kong was one of the first such movies; and to see that today, it clearly looks to our eyes as if they could have done a better job. The truth is; when you have movement there should be blur and in no frame of the entire movie was any of the action blurred even slightly in a single frame - except for the actual actors and anything filmed in camera. In the example below which is a single frame from the movie the producers at least knew enough about blur that they just decided it looked better not to even have a propeller on the model aircraft.
One of the last and greatest examples of Go Motion was 1980's - The Empire Strikes Back. The scene where the big metal camels were walking slowly towards the rebel base - the walkers - all done one frame at a time, on a set, and in camera. It is interesting to note that the intentional slow movement of the walkers written into in the script masked the fact that they still could not blur the movement and while that scene still looks pretty good today - something is missing - Motion Blur.
But I digress. The point is; when that ingredient (Motion Blur) is missing, even in minute amounts, the viewer can sense it if not - flat out know it. Whether its photos or film a sense of movement adds depth.
So this brings us full circle back to the Exposure debate and is indeed the foundational reason for two important aspects when recording video. Most know that the rule of thumb for shooting video is; you want a shutter speed that is twice that of your frames per second. But why? First you want an even light distribution across all frames, at twice the frame rate, the ideal exposure pulse is in the center of one frame and at the end/beginning of the next frame and so on. But more importantly; the longer you can expose the sensor to light, the greater the depth of color and detail will be exposed. Think of it like a printer - ever looked at the difference when printing a photo at fast draft and then at highest quality? The longer an image is exposed to the camera's sensor the better it will be recorded.
So regardless of the FPS (frames per second) you want to set the shutter speed at double or as close as possible. So for 30 FPS video we want a shutter speed at 1/60th of a second - 24 FPS gets a 1/50th of a second shutter speed and so on. Okay so where does this put us? We've got a fixed aperture, we've locked our shutter speed and so we basically are shooting shutter priority - what's left is the final ingredient - but there is another aspect. How can this be, there are only three ingredients right? So if there is another do we have a Square, an Exposure Square? Nope, we're just going to cook one of the ingredients; separately, before adding it to the mix - ND Filters.
Without the ND filter, our pie will never come out right unless we shoot in a studio where every aspect of light can be controlled and I'm pretty sure this ain't happening. So we have a pretty big aperture of 2.8 pouring light onto the sensor and to make matters worse we're letting the shutter stay open about as long as possible at 1/60th of a second and the ISO setting is at its least sensitive setting at 100; which when you get right down to it is the ideal settings for video, I mean if we could just turn the light down a little before it enters the camera. . . .ding, ding, ding.
Okay so everyone knows the ND Filter is a must if you want to get the lighting and exposure right for video but is there is a secondary benefit from using ND filters? Yes, motion blur, subtle it is, but it needs to be there. When we think of motion blur we think of a fast moving object such as a motorcycle speeding by and becoming a blur, but what if the camera follows the bike and the background is blurred - which one gives the feeling of speed?
Now that is a graphic example of how we interpret blur at the extremes, but the same holds true even at slower speeds. When we are flying over a landscape, there should be subtle blur on each frame as the landscape passes beneath. If its there it will look to our eyes as natural and if not, the scene may look odd. We've all heard of jello video, which occurs when a rolling shutter at very high shutter speed is coupled with high frequency vibration and the result is the image registered on the sensor appears to wave. But there can be more subtle registration anomalies that can be eliminated with an ND filter.
So how do you pick the right ND filter? As a simple guide; after booting up the controller and aircraft and connecting to the camera, go into manual mode, set your IS0 at 100 and then scroll through the shutter speeds and see when the scene exposure looks about right. You can also use the histogram as a guide (I'll get into this in another post). Now take a look at what the shutter speed is. Below is what I have found are my points for different ND filters
From 1/200th up to 1/400th = ND4...............Low light, early morning, late evening
From 1/400th up to 1/800th = ND8......................Medium light, mid day but cloudy
Above 1/800 = ND16...........................Bright sunlight, mid day, blue sky, no clouds
Some Tips:
Remember that there will be times when; with a selected ND filter, the exposure at the proper shutter speed is over or under exposed. Its always better that it is slightly underexposed as you can raise the ISO (Light Sensitivity) slightly and not loose image quality or induce noise up until about 540 or so. If it is over exposed- go up to the next ND and check again - if you can stay under 540 on the ISO you're good to go if not (and this is not likely), go back down an ND filter and you can raise the shutter speed, but always by double - 30 FPS shutter speed; Best 1/60th - Next 1/120th
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Ty Pilot, great summary of exposure control for our flying cameras.
I find it pretty easy to get good exposure (or slightly underexposed) on a sunny day with ND16 filter, ISO 100 and 1/60th of a second shutter speed. Overexposed images cause details in light areas to be totally washed out and un-fixable in post processing. Under exposed images can be fixed without loss of details.
I find it pretty easy to get good exposure (or slightly underexposed) on a sunny day with ND16 filter, ISO 100 and 1/60th of a second shutter speed. Overexposed images cause details in light areas to be totally washed out and un-fixable in post processing. Under exposed images can be fixed without loss of details.
Good thread. Are you talking stills or video? It is generally reckoned to be better to expose to the right of the histogram (if shooting in RAW) as this can give better detail in the shadows in particular once you bring the highlights back. Of course you said overexposed, so not so far to the right as to clip all the highlights in which case you are correct.
If you underexpose though then the image will have more noise particularly in the shadows.
As there are some videographers on this thread I have a question about using a camera for ground work mixed with aerial shots.
How can you use two different cameras and not end up with problems matching colour etc?
How can you use two different cameras and not end up with problems matching colour etc?
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In the above post I made - that was all aimed at video, in a future post I will cover the Photo side which I approach differently. As for under exposure via ND filter, the CG03 doesn't get too noisy until the iso gets above 400 in my estimation, again for video.
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Clips will need to be matched in post. I have found after using several cameras over a period of time you get to know where they need to be tweaked. I make presets for each camera in whichever editor I am using, and this works pretty good. For instance, if I am using a GoPro as a "B" camera with my DSLR as "A" and footage from the H footage also mixed in, I have presets for the gopro when shooting outdoors or in that bring it closely in line with the DSLR, and also have a few presets for the Typhoon depending on lighting. I've found the White balance on the H in sunlight is pretty good - a little cool so I have a preset to warm it up and another for cloudy.
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Yeah, I find on a perfect day the 16 is about right on the money. When I was speaking of under and over exposing above, the context was in regards to the process I use to pick an ND filter, I also try to never over expose because as you know detail not capture can't be brought back.
I mostly shoot video with the TH. I like the movement. Concerning motion blur, it's good to stop the movement once in a while so the full sharpness of the image can be seen.
With a little under exposure, bringing up just the dark areas in post and makes it look about right. The histogram is a valuable tool for setting exposure.
I shoot in Natural color setting almost all the time. Gorgeous is usually too much color. Raw is too much work in post. I haven't got a preset for Raw that looks any better than Natural.
I also Lock the white balance while viewing a standard white/grey card before takeoff. This saves a LOT of time in post trying to fix the Auto WB color shifting. Unfortunately, the TH automatically switches back to Auto WB when you switch from Video to Photo mode or vise versa.
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Yeah I hope eventually some of those bugs can be fixed in updates but til then we just have to remember the quirks.
Thanks for the replies, have they not sorted it so you can save camera settings yet when changing battery and switching from video to stills? Good god that is one of the most basic requirements, I lost so much work because of this in the past and forgetting to reset every single time.
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I know, hopefully Yuneec will get some of this fixed in the next firmeware and hopefully in the H Plus.
If they add that feature to the H +, in addition to the camera upgrade and brighter ST-16, both of my H's will be on the market...
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I'm going to keep mine I think because it may be an opportunity to add a premium to the higher grade imagery of the H Plus. Right now adding the aerial to the regular real estate stuff is fetching a decent amount that I can live with but I am going to raise it about 35% when I get the H Plus, then if the customer is still fickle, I'll shoot at the regular price with the H standard.
But then again, this is all predicated on the H Plus working or even being released by then.
Till then onward and upward with ole' trusty.
But then again, this is all predicated on the H Plus working or even being released by then.
Till then onward and upward with ole' trusty.
I need to do more research into the specific needs of the NDVI market... if in fact, they do not require more than a 12 MP image, I will definitely keep one of my CGO3+ to be modified to that market. Unfortunately there are no companies that have these NDVI solutions for anything other than a DJI product, with no other brand expansion on the horizon. When I emailed DroneDeploy,
their solution was simple... get a DJI for this kind of work. Not willing to give up that this can be achieved with a Yuneec platform. Fortunately I can wait to see how things play out several fronts, both in hardware and software.
their solution was simple... get a DJI for this kind of work. Not willing to give up that this can be achieved with a Yuneec platform. Fortunately I can wait to see how things play out several fronts, both in hardware and software.
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