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Toilet Bowl, fly away,

Were you flying right next to a car for every one? I saw two things in your video that suggested problems would soon become apparent. The first was the density of the housing. How many of those homes might have WiFi routers? That neighborhood is frequency saturated. Flying right next to a car, with the H between you and the car, set the stage for signal bounce. There's a very small time delay in that bounce, meaning the H is seeing the same or similar signal twice, milliseconds apart. That confuses control logic. I found this out when shooting a steel hulled ship where control was dicey with the H between me and the ship. Changing my position to where radio signal would not reflect back directly at the H restored control.

This would not be a design defect but simply a function of signal reflectivity. People put antennas high up in clear air for a reason.
This is the third crash of this type two were on a 20 acre farm with no electronic interference. the aircraft would not land. the left stick pinned down it increased its instability. This type of condition is being repeated over and over. in a hover the TP slightly drifts than becomes uncontrolled. Read others accounts. if Wi-Fi interference can disrupt the aircraft from the controller and that close distance than they need to ground all Typhoo H.
 
This is the third crash of this type two were on a 20 acre farm with no electronic interference. the aircraft would not land. the left stick pinned down it increased its instability. This type of condition is being repeated over and over. in a hover the TP slightly drifts than becomes uncontrolled. Read others accounts. if Wi-Fi interference can disrupt the aircraft from the controller and that close distance than they need to ground all Typhoo H.

Bigrich007,

During any of your three events, did you attempt to gain altitude at all, once the oscillation started? By gain, I mean 10-20 feet or higher? In your video I do not see a significant altitude change.

What I did see in the video is what I have seen in my own. Hovering around four feet, then seeing an oscillation starting. Every time, and I mean every time I thought to gain altitude, my H regained stability and allowed me to attempt another landing. Coming straight down with only a "flair out" to soften the actual contact, then produced an uneventful landing.

The one time (first time) I tried to land with the oscillations in progress, my H reacted similar to what you experienced. The motors would not idle and eventually tipped.

With my second hull, the one time I sensed the motors not wanting to idle, lifting off again in time to save it set everything back in sync and allowed a normal landing.

The recommendation remains: If oscillation starts close to the ground, gain altitude! Try another landing without delay (don't hover). If, by chance the descent is too slow and the oscillations start in again, go back up and... turn off GPS, and try again.

If not comfortable flying without GPS, go get a $40 Husban (or similar) and practice, practice, practice!!!

Jeff
 
This is the third crash of this type two were on a 20 acre farm with no electronic interference. the aircraft would not land. the left stick pinned down it increased its instability. This type of condition is being repeated over and over. in a hover the TP slightly drifts than becomes uncontrolled. Read others accounts. if Wi-Fi interference can disrupt the aircraft from the controller and that close distance than they need to ground all Typhoo H.

I can appreciate you being upset with all the problems you have suffered, however, your conclusions do not match those of most TH owners.
You have given no details of your preparation, your settings, and you are not asking for help.

We are not the manufacturer, we do not represent them. Kindly take your complaints to Yuneec and let them help you, they have a good history with members here. Call them and give them a chance.
 
Hi Pat:
When the moment happens there is soooo much Adrenalin flowing it is hard to keep things straight. I agree these are things that should be noted.
Now that this has happened to me I will be more observant. As far as some of your questions go , I did not do a compass calibration prior to flight. I did not know that it was a recommendation. I got no compass or GPS error. In fact I looked specifically at the number of SAT and that number was at a high of 20 and a low of 14. I tis hard to see the color of the rear light in bright sunlight. Hopefully I won't have to experience this again. After discussing with Jeff( earlier post reply) this may not have been a TB issue.
Thanks for you input

It's SOP that any GPS dependent drone be compass calibrated. It's definitely in the Yuneec documentation that came with your H and for sure is part of the set up videos that were on the factory supplied Sd card. You need to watch some tutorials. My Autel had much clearer instructions for calibrating and basically says all new locations where the H has this 100 mile mythology I've seen overly discussed here. Bottom line is if you want stable flight, calibrate your compass as part of your flight prep for your location and video shoot and it is very reliable.
 
I can appreciate you being upset with all the problems you have suffered, however, your conclusions do not match those of most TH owners.
You have given no details of your preparation, your settings, and you are not asking for help.

We are not the manufacturer, we do not represent them. Kindly take your complaints to Yuneec and let them help you, they have a good history with members here. Call them and give them a chance.
Rayray
First, all I'd like to explain to you, that I am not upset I am looking for solutions.
If you watched my video I explained that the typhoon was calibrated, accelerometer was check and compass calibration done. I was in the angle mode OB turned off and my spectral indicator or interfere indicator was reading -3 I had 12 the 14 satellites. All preflight passed. What more do you need to know.
Second, if you read my first post this was the second time that the aircraft was sent back for the same problems. So I have been working with CS. Would you agree that this consumer pro drone should not need all of these workarounds just to hover and land. I had over 40 hrs on this drone before this occurred.
Third, you said that my experience DId not match that of others. I have found at least 15 others and recently post videos that look exactly like my post. if you check on the discussions side of the forum you will find just as many as I did.
I Conclude that we all love these drones but let's make sure we fix the problem and not ignore them. I been Private pilot for over thirty years, been fling drones for over five. I see pattern of a design flaw.
 
Rayray
...<snip>... I had 12 the 14 satellites. ...<snip>....
Not sure what you are saying here. If you mean you had 12 satellites locked, then I suggest that is too low a count of satellites for comfort. If you mean you had 14 locked, then still a bit low for my liking. I prefer to see 16 upwards.
Just making an observation.
 
Realistically, a good GPS solution is obtainable with 5 or 6 satellites, provided the lock times are long enough. If any system must have more I'll suggest the design standard is a little low. Pretty much all the fight controllers use low level GPS units.

Second, GPS is not all that relevant to toilet bowling. The condition is generally caused from compass errors or accelerometers out of calibration. Those the move the H after power up before accelerometer self checks are complete induce stability issues. Many people unthinkingly do this, and just as many fail to accurately describe their pre-flight set up process.

Third, if people choose to fly with the H between them and a large metal object or chain link fence, they should anticipate stability issues. If the radio signal can reflect off the metal and back to the H there can be problems.

Only one of the above might be considered a design deficiency, and it's one all of the manufacturers share. The other two are operator issues, generally caused by lack of knowledge. I don't know if any of them fit what you are experiencing but those are the first places I would consider because they are far too frequently the issue.
 
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Realistically, a good GPS solution is obtainable with 5 or 6 satellites, provided the lock times are long enough. If any system must have more I'll suggest the design standard is a little low. Pretty much all the fight controllers use low level GPS units.

Second, GPS is not all that relevant to toilet bowling. The condition is generally caused from compass errors or accelerometers out of calibration. Those the move the H after power up before accelerometer self checks are complete induce stability issues. Many people unthinkingly do this, and just as many fail to accurately describe their pre-flight set up process.

Third, if people choose to fly with the H between them and a large metal object or chain link fence, they should anticipate stability issues. If the radio signal can reflect off the metal and back to the H there can be problems.

Only one of the above might be considered a design deficiency, and it's one all of the manufacturers share. The other two are operator issues, generally caused by lack of knowledge. I don't know if any of them fit what you are experiencing but those are the first places I would consider because they are far too frequently an issue.

PatR,

Curious... do you know what the relationship is between the compass and GPS systems in the H?

Reason I ask is this: you are saying you doubt the GPS is at issue here, but rather suspect something with the compass is the cause. That is, all other factors such as interference, reflections, et al, are out of the conversation.

What I am seeing is this: if oscillating flight initiates, turning off the GPS via the ST16 brings the oscillating flight pattern to a stop. Control is completely manual, of course, but full control has been regained without having to fight.

I am curious if, by turning off GPS, we are also turning off the compass, or otherwise stopping any control mechanism making use of the compass.

Thanks!

Jeff
 
Realistically, a good GPS solution is obtainable with 5 or 6 satellites, provided the lock times are long enough. If any system must have more I'll suggest the design standard is a little low. Pretty much all the fight controllers use low level GPS units.

With regard to the Typhoon H and only the Typhoon H, I respectfully must disagree with you on this. Probably OK if dropping an atomic bomb.:)
 
We'll agree to disagree I think, mostly because our multirotor FC's don't have the signal processing capabilities higher level GPS systems do. If they did there would not be a need to latch on to so many satellites for a basic position fix. With better equipment a fix with a CEP of 0.2m can be obtained with 5 or 6 satellites. Of course more satellites is always better and allows for a faster fix. If someone drops the bomb all bets on anything using electricity or radio signals are off:)
 
We'll agree to disagree I think, mostly because our multirotor FC's don't have the signal processing capabilities higher level GPS systems do. If they did there would not be a need to latch on to so many satellites for a basic position fix. With better equipment a fix with a CEP of 0.2m can be obtained with 5 or 6 satellites. Of course more satellites is always better and allows for a faster fix. If someone drops the bomb all bets on anything using electricity or radio signals are off:)
Just a point of interest. My old Phantom 2 Vision Plus is considered to have an adequate satellites lock if it has acquired 6 satellites. Indeed, I consider myself fortunate if I ever acquire more than 10 satellites. Conversely, with my H I look to get 16 satellites before taking off and I consider myself not to have sufficient for a flight if I acquire less than 15.

Are you saying that my Phantom 2 Vision Plus in this respect is somehow superior to the H?
Not being confrontational...just curious.
 
Realistically, a good GPS solution is obtainable with 5 or 6 satellites, provided the lock times are long enough. If any system must have more I'll suggest the design standard is a little low. Pretty much all the fight controllers use low level GPS units.

Second, GPS is not all that relevant to toilet bowling. The condition is generally caused from compass errors or accelerometers out of calibration. Those the move the H after power up before accelerometer self checks are complete induce stability issues. Many people unthinkingly do this, and just as many fail to accurately describe their pre-flight set up process.

Third, if people choose to fly with the H between them and a large metal object or chain link fence, they should anticipate stability issues. If the radio signal can reflect off the metal and back to the H there can be problems.

Only one of the above might be considered a design deficiency, and it's one all of the manufacturers share. The other two are operator issues, generally caused by lack of knowledge. I don't know if any of them fit what you are experiencing but those are the first places I would consider because they are far too frequently the issue.
I would agree that the accelerometer(IMU) is out of calibration. One common symptom is the TH will not respond to left joy stick pulled down for landing. Causing it to skip or hard landing, It drifts as if its not level then yaws into a spin.This would point to the accelerometer. GPS tells it were it is in three dimensional space but the accelerometer and compass gives the TH its orientation in 3D space.
 
The 10 mile suggestion is a new one for me too. Greater distances, as in 100+ miles, is what I recall as to advice
I guess you never really know if there is some magnetic anomaly where/when you calibrate; some buried pipe, a powerline or rail track. Maybe calibrating before a first flight in any location isn't a bad practice? I've had two compass calibration warnings in the air this week, both at the same location I did my last calibration. If I was 5 or 10 miles away I'd understand, but not at the same field and virtually the same spot.
 
Yesterday, I flew in new territory within my travel zone between Tucson and Scottsdale. I had flown at school earlier that day and did a compass calibration there. I was within the safe distance to not really need to calibrate again later but I did anyway. It's part of my pre flight no matter what and where and my H performs 100% as expected every time and I'm getting the best motion shots possible with this technology. Any angle or move I can think of is possible. Even the OBS comes in handy occasionally and works well.
 
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Gents,
Recent TB incidents include 2 day flights and 1 night flight all three were within 10 Mtrs of the same location..

Preflight included compass and Imu calibrations

Satellites were varied between the 3 flights but at all times no less than 14 satellites and generally on take off this always increased to 17 or so on Aircraft...

Height above ground again varied from approx 6mtrs to 9mtrs for the 3 flights

At time of TB the action of the aircraft is in a hover at which time it begins a consistent oval anticlockwise with the camera facing me... Yes I have video from the aircraft to prove it.

Please note on all three occasions weather again varied from slightly overcast to a bright sunny day..

First experience of TB I was very nervous and simply failed to react quickly enough so the TB increased in overall diameter starting at approximately 500mm then increased to over 1 mtr before I pushed the aircraft out into an open field where I forced her to land a little rough but I got her down..

Second TB next day following same calibration procedure again in hover excellent satellites on commencement of TB I raised the aircraft about 9 Mtrs Agl this action cancelled TB and I completed a flight BUT when I came into land the aircraft was not completely stable as it was wandering a little which I had to continually correct.

3rd TB same procedures as above testing my Thermal camera at night about 6 Mtrs agl TB commenced and I again raised the aircraft about 9 Mtrs Agl before bringing her in to land

Please note I have more than 2 years experience flying my Hubsans.. Ar drone.. Inspire as well as my recent Mavic Pro and I tell you all that as much as I love my Typhoon Pro the flying experience is simply not as responsive as other platforms... Noting a lag also in flight control and its responsiveness..

There are lots of positives with the Hex design.. Thermal camera etc.. So I want good things for Yuneec BUT our issues need real Feedback from Yuneec for us to keep the faith...
 
Here's what I got from US CS last month on this subject:
"Please simply perform a compass calibration on your unit whenever you are preparing to fly in a new location over 200 miles from the previous flight. After this is completed and the unit states Ready in the GPS field you are good to go!"
In a later email, the CS rep added:
"...large moves (over 200 miles) or severe weather changes to be safe."
Let's see, 10 miles, 100 miles, 200 miles...hmm.
I've also read that frequent compass recalibrations increases the chances of getting a bad one. If I have a good calibration, I do not recalibrate unless firmware was updated or X miles away from last good calibration. I'm curious, though, what "severe weather changes" could mean. We've had some pretty dynamic weather here in the PNW lately.
 
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Gents,
Recent TB incidents include 2 day flights and 1 night flight all three were within 10 Mtrs of the same location..
Preflight included compass and Imu calibrations

Ed, since all 3 flights were essentially at the same location, have you verified that there is no magnetic interference in the calibration or take-off area; cars, pipes, rebar (in concrete), power lines, metal buildings, RR tracks, WiFi, etc? Also, do you leave the TH completely alone (no fiddling with camera or props or take-off location) while it is booting up? Both of these can be too easily overlooked in the excitement of the moment. I agree that you need some definitive solution either from your forum friends here or Yuneec CS. Don't give up.
 
I've also read that frequent compass recalibrations increases the chances of getting a bad one. If I have a good calibration, I do not recalibrate unless firmware was updated or X miles away from last good calibration. I'm curious, though, what "severe weather changes" could mean. We've had some pretty dynamic weather here in the PNW lately.

PNW...Pacific NW?

I agree with you about not needing frequent compass re-cals. With me, mainly because I'm lazy. I don't even do one after a firmware update unless it is recommended. As for getting a GOOD compass calibration, If you first get a solid green light on the drone after completion, you are good to go.

Severe weather changes mayhaps fall into the UFO or some-such category.
 
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PNW...Pacific NW?
Severe weather changes mayhaps fall into the UFO or some-such category.

Yes, Pacific Northwest. I've posted a number of PNW videos on YouTube at Rubik3x.
UFO! Yah, that's it!
The only thing I can think of that changes with severe weather is the barometer. Doesn't that get reset every time the TH boots up?
 

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