C23 freeze up

[DoomMeister]

So are all 4 entities screwing around with the global positioning?

I’ve seen some pretty strange data on flyaways since 24 Feb suggesting fake data. One was heading data changing by 100 degrees after liftoff with no magnetic warnings and the aircraft being found about 100 degrees west of the path determined by telemetry.

 

[Vaklin]

I'm in doubt, the manufacturers get into account all the possible scenarios of fake data in their products if they are thought about this at all.

From injecting the wrong almanac into the assisted GPS modes, via manipulated ephemerides and birds clocks. The control uplink protocol is an old one and has for sure been discovered many times till today with success.

More than that, some sources point to a Starlink as a source of replaced GPS data too.

We will see...

 

[DoomMeister]

Best scenario is stop with all the political male bovine feces. Will not inject any of my own views about either side of the issue.

What would be nice is options for selecting what satellite groups you employ at the user level. Also should not require 10 satellites to achieve GPS Ready, that is overkill.

 

[Vaklin]

The manufacturer's decision about ten birds is hard enough but probably has a reason. The count of satellites in the sky is predictable at any time. How many of them will be in fix depends on the signal quality of every one. This quality depends on many factors. If the receiver says the fix is OK, this can not satisfy the certificate holder of the drone to say the flight is in safe conditions. So, ten is over needed but gave some safety margin.

The scenario with the right almanac and ephemera is possible only with the signal from the sky, which is very precisely coordinated.

On the market are available fake GPS data generators but they're extremely expensive. The price depends on the signal quality. I looked to obtain one but the price was very far from my possibilities. So, the topic was closed with a GPS signal extender for $100.

 

[ttmarch]

Best scenario is stop with all the political male bovine feces. Will not inject any of my own views about either side of the issue.

What would be nice is options for selecting what satellite groups you employ at the user level. Also should not require 10 satellites to achieve GPS Ready, that is overkill.

So, male bovine feces aside, lol, anymore insights? I now consider this H+ an unreliable aircraft as it will stay on the ground until I know what direction to take. At least I have my 480 as a backup.

 

[DoomMeister]

From your latter posts I see you cleaned the potentiometers for the sticks and did the controller calibration and a compass calibration on the aircraft.

The wand antennas for RC signal were mentioned and I posted a photo showing how they should be positioned. How did you have them positioned for the flights that @h-elsner found weak RC connection? At what distance were you losing RC connection?

At this point I think a test flight in an open area might be a good idea. Make sure you have good GPS before launching and have the RTL setting set to the takeoff point. If you lose RC link it should return to that spot.

Make flights straight out and back and watch for any messages about RC loss. Gradually lengthen the distance to see if there is any improvement in keeping the control link.

If you are losing GPS and dropping to Manual Mode land and cease flights until a cause is found for the GPS troubles.

 

[ttmarch]

From your latter posts I see you cleaned the potentiometers for the sticks and did the controller calibration and a compass calibration on the aircraft.

The wand antennas for RC signal were mentioned and I posted a photo showing how they should be positioned. How did you have them positioned for the flights that @h-elsner found weak RC connection? At what distance were you losing RC connection?

At this point I think a test flight in an open area might be a good idea. Make sure you have good GPS before launching and have the RTL setting set to the takeoff point. If you lose RC link it should return to that spot.

Make flights straight out and back and watch for any messages about RC loss. Gradually lengthen the distance to see if there is any improvement in keeping the control link.

If you are losing GPS and dropping to Manual Mode land and cease flights until a cause is found for the GPS troubles.

The antenna were parallel, so I will copy the picture from now on. I will try tomorrow morning, hopefully windless or mild wind..
I will certainly report back. Thanks for the input thus far.

 

[DoomMeister]

Post your flightlogs again after the test flight to see if there is improvement in the ST16S stick values and in the RC signal levels.

 

[ttmarch]

Post your flightlogs again after the test flight to see if there is improvement in the ST16S stick values and in the RC signal levels.

I will, light rain here this am, waiting for a break in the weather now.

 

[ttmarch]

Post your flightlogs again after the test flight to see if there is improvement in the ST16S stick values and in the RC signal levels.

Here's the file and some screenshots. I don't understand the low voltage warning for avionics.

 

[DoomMeister]

I was busy in the yard doing spring clean up today. I’ll try to get to the FlightLog in the morning.

The low Avionics Power is typical and appears as the aircraft is first powered up. As long as it does not persist after power up there is nothing to worry about.

 

[h-elsner]

The message "CAUTION: Avionics power low" is 'normal' as DM said. It comes every time the motors will be armed. Seems to be a voltage drop at sensor due to motor current peak.
It's only a problem when it happens during flight, but this I have never seen up to now.

Test flight 00226 looks good so far, no RC drops. Flight behavior is good. Pitch stick is calibrated now. Compass calibration done. Here are the messages:
13706 00:04:05 INFO: '(3,26)ANGLE MODE'
22141 00:06:28 CRITICAL: 'CAUTION: Avionics power low: 4.71 Volt'
22143 00:06:28 INFO: 'Armed by RC.'
22144 00:06:28 INFO: '(3,14)home: 43.2295291, -115.9608103, 955.81'
22154 00:06:28 INFO: '[logger] file: /fs/microsd/log/2022-04-26/20_25_2'
22610 00:06:36 INFO: 'Takeoff detected.'
22670 00:06:37 MPC_REALSENSE : Type: 6, Index: 393, Count: 813, Value: $01=0000 0001
23715 00:06:54 INFO: '(1,7)Warn geomagnetic field is disturbed.'
44950 00:12:56 INFO: '(3,81) obs open'
45017 00:12:57 INFO: '(2,86) altitude Less than 1.5m, obs not available'
45076 00:12:58 INFO: '(3,81) obs open'
50790 00:14:36 INFO: '(3,51) BEGIN TO RTL'
50793 00:14:36 INFO: 'Flying straight to home'
50894 00:14:37 INFO: 'RTL: loiter 3.5s'
51439 00:14:47 INFO: '(3,26)ANGLE MODE'
51472 00:14:47 MPC_REALSENSE : Type: 6, Index: 393, Count: 813, Value: $01=0000 0001
51932 00:14:55 INFO: '(2,86) altitude Less than 1.5m, obs not available'
52200 00:15:00 INFO: 'Landing detected.'
52208 00:15:00 INFO: 'Disarmed by auto disarm on land.'

One message "Warn geomagnetic field is disturbed" after calibration during flight but never reported again. I think it is not a problem.

I wonder why the RC signal strength is going down before starting the drone. You moved away from drone but only a few meters. This should not result in that drop. Did you have the two rod antennas in 90° angle to each other at this time?



br HE

 

[ttmarch]

The message "CAUTION: Avionics power low" is 'normal' as DM said. It comes every time the motors will be armed. Seems to be a voltage drop at sensor due to motor current peak.
It's only a problem when it happens during flight, but this I have never seen up to now.

Test flight 00226 looks good so far, no RC drops. Flight behavior is good. Pitch stick is calibrated now. Compass calibration done. Here are the messages:
13706 00:04:05 INFO: '(3,26)ANGLE MODE'
22141 00:06:28 CRITICAL: 'CAUTION: Avionics power low: 4.71 Volt'
22143 00:06:28 INFO: 'Armed by RC.'
22144 00:06:28 INFO: '(3,14)home: 43.2295291, -115.9608103, 955.81'
22154 00:06:28 INFO: '[logger] file: /fs/microsd/log/2022-04-26/20_25_2'
22610 00:06:36 INFO: 'Takeoff detected.'
22670 00:06:37 MPC_REALSENSE : Type: 6, Index: 393, Count: 813, Value: $01=0000 0001
23715 00:06:54 INFO: '(1,7)Warn geomagnetic field is disturbed.'
44950 00:12:56 INFO: '(3,81) obs open'
45017 00:12:57 INFO: '(2,86) altitude Less than 1.5m, obs not available'
45076 00:12:58 INFO: '(3,81) obs open'
50790 00:14:36 INFO: '(3,51) BEGIN TO RTL'
50793 00:14:36 INFO: 'Flying straight to home'
50894 00:14:37 INFO: 'RTL: loiter 3.5s'
51439 00:14:47 INFO: '(3,26)ANGLE MODE'
51472 00:14:47 MPC_REALSENSE : Type: 6, Index: 393, Count: 813, Value: $01=0000 0001
51932 00:14:55 INFO: '(2,86) altitude Less than 1.5m, obs not available'
52200 00:15:00 INFO: 'Landing detected.'
52208 00:15:00 INFO: 'Disarmed by auto disarm on land.'

One message "Warn geomagnetic field is disturbed" after calibration during flight but never reported again. I think it is not a problem.

I wonder why the RC signal strength is going down before starting the drone. You moved away from drone but only a few meters. This should not result in that drop. Did you have the two rod antennas in 90° angle to each other at this time?
View attachment 27961


br HE

Thanks for the data breakdown, so maybe a ghost in the machine? Maybe a couple more test flights to see if anything shows back up.??

 

[DoomMeister]

I think you are OK for some more test flights to vet the system.

I'm still puzzled by the switch to manual mode on the flyaway. It appeared you still had RC connection until the end of the first log file that day, and there were sufficient satellites on both aircraft and the ground station. It even appeared to go into RTL, but being in Manual Mode (Angle without GPS) it loitered and drifted with the wind.

I would test in a large open area with few or no obstacles and gradually extend distance and altitude.

 

[WTFDproject]

Thanks for the data breakdown, so maybe a ghost in the machine? Maybe a couple more test flights to see if anything shows back up.??

I'm not so sure as I'd like to be. Granted, I'm not the best at reviewing the logs. The actual signal strengths don't look all that bad. Until you compare them to the distances at which they were recorded. I think I see a general significant lack of signal for the given distances and the low altitude you were using. If I read this right, you were on the very edge of signal loss at only about 200 feet distance and 20 feet altitude. On open, flat ground. That ain't good. There was also a period of very low signal when you were still at the takeoff point. And there were relatively frequent periods of signal dropping way below the general signal strength through many periods of the flight.
I would wait for the more knowledgeable data readers to review these observations before taking to the air again. If the signal is as generally weak and unstable as it seems, we need to start figuring out where the problem is.


Also a reminder. If you do fly again, stay out of Sport mode. If you lose signal for any reason, you want that thing to come home on it's own.

@h-elsner, do you know why the drone went into Manual Mode on the original flight?

 

[ttmarch]

I'm not so sure as I'd like to be. Granted, I'm not the best at reviewing the logs. The actual signal strengths don't look all that bad. Until you compare them to the distances at which they were recorded. I think I see a general significant lack of signal for the given distances and the low altitude you were using. If I read this right, you were on the very edge of signal loss at only about 200 feet distance and 20 feet altitude. On open, flat ground. That ain't good. There was also a period of very low signal when you were still at the takeoff point. And there were relatively frequent periods of signal dropping way below the general signal strength through many periods of the flight.
I would wait for the more knowledgeable data readers to review these observations before taking to the air again. If the signal is as generally weak and unstable as it seems, we need to start figuring out where the problem is.
View attachment 27968

Also a reminder. If you do fly again, stay out of Sport mode. If you lose signal for any reason, you want that thing to come home on it's own.

@h-elsner, do you know why the drone went into Manual Mode on the original flight?

If I understand correctly, the controller signal is not putting out what it should, or at least intermittent weakness. Which explains the camera function weakness( sometimes would not take a pic, and sometimes it would not) Is there a way for us to test those functions?

 

[WTFDproject]

Not with much accuracy. You can download a WIFI analyzer to your smart phone and get an idea of the camera WIFI strength. That is VERY general. And I don't even know if it will work for measuring the transmitter output. Some other folks on the forum know a lot about radio signals and how to evaluate. Maybe someone can help us both here?

 

[ttmarch]

Not with much accuracy. You can download a WIFI analyzer to your smart phone and get an idea of the camera WIFI strength. That is VERY general. And I don't even know if it will work for measuring the transmitter output. Some other folks on the forum know a lot about radio signals and how to evaluate. Maybe someone can help us both here?

Maybe I should just go ahead and order another controller from John@Yuneecskins. I would think cost of shipping and repair to be about the same.

 

[h-elsner]

Camera connection and RC connection are different things. It needs to be analyzed separately.
My assumptions were done on base of RSSI values which we only have from RC connection (2.4GHz ZigBee). They are not so bad. Same at the flight in question (00216). RSSI -75dB is not bad, but there are serious drop outs.

At test flight (00226) there are no such drop outs and RSSI goes down to -85dB. This is comparable to log that I have from other H Plus and inside specification for the receiver. But you are right, it looks strange when ST16 moves some meters and the signal goes down in such way (before start already!).
My idea is that the problem is at the ST16, a broken middle pin in the antenna connector, a lose antenna connection or defect cable or wrong antenna setting or .... I was not there I can only speculate. That's why I love my old ST16 with internal 2.4GHz antenna and only one outside.

br HE

 

[h-elsner]

(OT) Bye the way: There are 3 things you never can explain and you are in gods hands:
- german jurisdiction
- the thinking of women
- the ways high frequency goes.

I will look deeper into data of sensor files but this will take time...

br HE