Camera lens filters

[Ty Pilot]

Correct @rdonson , Exposure is the result of the three components; Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. With a fixed Aperture all thats left is ISO and Shutter and when shooting video, shutter speed is priority and should be set at twice the frame rate leaving only the ISO which; you want as close to 100 as you can get, and to do that - ND Filters for most outdoor daytime shooting are required.

 

[rdonson]

Correct @rdonson , Exposure is the result of the three components; Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. With a fixed Aperture all thats left is ISO and Shutter and when shooting video, shutter speed is priority and should be set at twice the frame rate leaving only the ISO which; you want as close to 100 as you can get, and to do that - ND Filters for most outdoor daytime shooting are required.

Thanks! Yes, that's the way I've approached taking video for the last year with my H.

One trick you shared that has worked for me to avoid screwing up the settings is to tap one of the tabs on either the Camera or Cruise setting controls and dismissing the pop up window BEFORE finalizing the camera setup.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Yep, I must admit I did not catch that for a while and a few times I thought perhaps it was something else had reset everything. But yeah it is about the first thing I do when the camera connects and the rest is smooth sailing.

 

[jcommstudios]

This is exactly how it should be done and look in the end.

Thanks Murray, Most people don't understand a fixed focal length rolling shutter (CMOS sensor) adjusts itself as far as shutter speed. EV is exposure value. There is no setting on the H CGO3+ to adjust shutter speed. Just ISO and EV which is how much light the sensor is exposed to. Which is similar to shutter speed but not. I shoot other CMOS 1 inch video cameras and it is the same. There are CMOS still cameras that shoot video and they do allow for shutter speed adjustment. I have the YIM1 that shoots pretty decent 4K video with a 1" CMOS and on that camera I set the shutter speed to double the frame rate for smooth video.

 

[Ty Pilot]

With all due respect @jcommstudios when you enter Manual control, the Shutter Speed and ISO are set by the user. Here is a screen shot of my ST 16. In this view on the left, you can see ISO and Shutter Speed, In the center is a fly-out pop up menu that allows for Cruise Control and Camera adjustment thru the D-pads on the left and right. However when using the D-pad for camera control; it disables manual control and lets you control EV - however that is as you mention; a mixture of both decided on by the programming. But as I mentioned: when shooting video the left trim pad is left alone for the very reason that it resets the camera to auto.

Are you saying that even though it is showing an ISO of 100 and a Shutter Speed of 1/60s - its not actually at 1/60th?

 

[jcommstudios]

With all due respect @jcommstudios when you enter Manual control, the Shutter Speed and ISO are set by the user. Here is a screen shot of my ST 16. In this view on the left, you can see ISO and Shutter Speed, In the center is a fly-out pop up menu that allows for Cruise Control and Camera adjustment thru the D-pads on the left and right. However when using the D-pad for camera control; it disables manual control and lets you control EV - however that is as you mention; a mixture of both decided on by the programming. But as I mentioned: when shooting video the left trim pad is left alone for the very reason that it resets the camera to auto.

Are you saying that even though it is showing an ISO of 100 and a Shutter Speed of 1/60s - its not actually at 1/60th?


View attachment 9586

I give up! lol The CGO3+ is a rolling shutter camera with a fixed focal distance. The M is manual EV or exposure value. Next time you are flying go into manual mode upon setup (after you have set and locked white balance) on a day with just moderate sunlight, with ISO at 100 see what you get on your screen at 1/60. It will be washed out and white as you are exposing the sensor to to much light. With ISO at 100 roll the exposure to anywhere between 1/320s to 1/800s and see what you get. This does not work in auto mode and you should be shooting in natural mode rather than gorgeous mode. PS. I shoot video with the H not stills. Perhaps there is a different situation with photos.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Well I'm not giving up. LOL So yes, we do have control over shutter speed and yes, I know what type of shutter the CG03+ has. But we can chose to have manual control over both ISO and Shutter Speed (Manual) OR we can let camera decide the settings and tell it to step up or down the exposure (EV).

In your example -

Next time you are flying go into manual mode upon setup (after you have set and locked white balance) on a day with just moderate sunlight, with ISO at 100 see what you get on your screen at 1/60. It will be washed out and white as you are exposing the sensor to to much light. With ISO at 100 roll the exposure to anywhere between 1/320s to 1/800s and see what you get. This does not work in auto mode and you should be shooting in natural mode rather than gorgeous mode. PS. I shoot video with the H not stills. Perhaps there is a different situation with photos.

This is why we use ND Filters - its is why ND filters exist. I do shoot on bright sunny days with the ISO at 100 and the Shutter Speed at 1/60th of a second and the video is properly exposed.

Exposure is the combined results of Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed, so when you say "with ISO set at 100 roll the exposure" - you mean change the shutter speed. Increase it. I say just put the correct ND filter on it.

All I am saying is that I never want my shutter speed for video over twice the speed of the FPS, this is an industry standard and most videographers worth their salt will say this (not me I just read what they say). Essentially I always shoot video in shutter priority - twice the FPS. And never ever when shooting video do I let the camera set the exposure even if I can step it up or down (EV) - thats a photography thing and a different subject from video with a different set of rules.

 

[rdonson]

@jcommstudios

With all due respect, an electronic shutter, whether is used for video or photos behaves the same. It’s called a “rolling shutter” because the CMOS sensor cannot read all the photo sites at one time. You can, however, change how quickly you can read the photo sites from the CMOS sensor.

Are you trying to say that the rate at which the photo sites are being read is actually the selected FPS? So if someone selects 1080p @ 120 FPS the photosites are being read at 1/120 sec?

If this is the case then what does the shutter speed that Yuneec and other companies present truly mean.

Exposure Value (EV) can only affect the 3 variables. Aperture, ISO and shutter speed. So.... since the aperture is fixed what does EV mean for the H?

For my basically still cameras that do shoot 4K video it breaks out like this:

Aperture Priority mode - the aperture remains as set, shutter speed and ISO may vary

Shutter Priority mode - the shutter speed remains as set, ISO and aperture may vary

 

[Ty Pilot]

Are you asking me that Ron?

 

[rdonson]

This may be moot. DJI just released the Phantom 4 Pro V2.0

The new 1" camera features a mechanical shutter.

https://store.dji.com/product/phantom-4-pro-v2?vid=43141

 

[rdonson]

Are you asking me that Ron?

No, as I think you and I are on the same page. I'm hoping that @jcommstudios can further explain things to show how we're "not getting it".

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

So here's my question, coming from a dinosaur who has never owned a higher end digital camera... from my knowledge of how a rolling shutter works, it is not too dissimilar from how a focal plane shutter works in an analog SLR... and why, for equivalent reasons, a "flash sync" shutter speed was necessary.

So Ron, when you say the Phantom 4 Pro V2 has a mechanical shutter, do you mean the equivalent of an analog leaf shutter?

 

[rdonson]

@Eagle's Eye Video in the link I provided DJI says its a true mechanical shutter which I take to mean a focal plane shutter like in an SLR, DSLR or mirrorless camera.

I hate to add any complexity to this thread but there are actually more than one type of focal plane shutter. Here's a decent piece on them.

Focal-plane shutter - Wikipedia

One thing I hasten to mention... I am an absolute noob when it comes to digital video and how the cameras may work.

My photography experience with cameras goes back a long ways to various film cameras and into the digital age about 18 years ago.

 

[TimboSlice]

Filter or no filter? take a look

 

[rdonson]

Good video and love the music choice!

I use Polar Pro ND filters as well. Sometimes I wish they had a CPL for the TH.

 

[PatR]

CPL filters are generally useless on a moving multirotor.

 

[rdonson]

I agree that most drone pilots would think CPLs not worth the effort.

CPL filters are most effective when the light is 90 degrees to the camera. Being off from 90 degrees doesn’t mean there is no effect. For me that doesn’t mean they’re not useful though. For certain things I’d be willing to take multiple flights adjusting the CPL for max results on each flight. This is not something everyone would choose to do though.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I would also agree with Ron and Pat that in general, they would be useless on a moving platform if one were up flying in multiple directions while camera running. However if the was a shot where you knew and planned the direction of flight and camera in relation to the sun, then you would get so of the benefit from a CP.