Can We Agree On A Battery Level?
- Thread starter DroneClone
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I am calling them tomorrow and will ask, have to call about my mushroom antenna falling off
I am setting my landings at 15 volts till I get some answers from Yuneec tomorrow
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14-15 minutes, depends on conditions, wind mainly and the direction you fly in it
I'm glad I happened on this post. Brand brand new to this hobby. Without bogging down this thread on the basics of what you're talking about --can someone point me to where I might learn more about this issue and perhaps save myself killing a few batteries?
Update: Just found this useful article:
The Ultimate LiPo Drone Battery Care Guide
Update: Just found this useful article:
The Ultimate LiPo Drone Battery Care Guide
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Does the Yuneec charger look like it is easy to open up? I have a few little led volt meters that I could wire in to monitor each cell or over all voltage.
Right here! or call Yuneec as no one really knows the level for the H as it is not in manual or vids
Yes, thank you --but sounds like I'm not the only one that needs a more in depth understanding than knowing just what the "level" is. Like one guy said: "I am setting my landings at 15 volts till I get some answers from Y tomorrow"
Which leads me to believe I have to know something about voltages and how that affects flight and battery time and limiting the voltages and when to land safely --ALL being Greek to me. Like how does one "set landing voltage"?
And I just found out I should use Lipo charging bags in a clay pot outside when charging to be REALLY safe. So out the window went another $50 because I decided 3 individual fire resistant bags for the 3 batteries I bought --to all be stored inside a bigger fire resistant bag.
Oh .. and how does one "balance a charge"....???
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Let me see if I can put this in simpler terms.
Imagine you have 4 AA batteries, each one when fully charged will read 1.5 volts.
If we connect them in series 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5= 6 volts total. (like your LiPo but the voltage is higher)
If you were to charge the above pack, each cell will charge a slightly different rates. After charging the total voltage may only = 5.8 volts because one of the cells did not fully charge. The best way to charge the pack is by balancing or charging each cell individually and not the entire pack.
This is a very simple explanation and there is much more to it. LiPo's have higher voltages than AA batteries, and should NEVER be allowed to go to zero volts. (not even sure if you could charge one back up)
Hope this helps a bit
Imagine you have 4 AA batteries, each one when fully charged will read 1.5 volts.
If we connect them in series 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5= 6 volts total. (like your LiPo but the voltage is higher)
If you were to charge the above pack, each cell will charge a slightly different rates. After charging the total voltage may only = 5.8 volts because one of the cells did not fully charge. The best way to charge the pack is by balancing or charging each cell individually and not the entire pack.
This is a very simple explanation and there is much more to it. LiPo's have higher voltages than AA batteries, and should NEVER be allowed to go to zero volts. (not even sure if you could charge one back up)
Hope this helps a bit
PatR
Premium Pilot
Balance charging is done by using a multi-pin "tap" that would normally connect to the corresponding tap on a lipo battery. The battery is actually charged through the balance tap, not the main power inputs. So called "Smart" batteries do not have these taps, requiring the user to use the brand specific charger to handle their batteries. Good for the manufacturer in forcing the user to buy only one type and make of battery, at times not good for the battery. Another down side of smart or proprietary case batteries is the user has no clue to the cell quality. They may be buying the most cut rate battery there is but there's little they can do about it because they have to have a
"cased" battery. In the case of Yuneec, the only way to truly balance charge the batteries is to make a custom charging receptacle for the battery. An example of such a one can be seen at Horizon Hobby in the fast charge adapter for the Chroma batteries. They work perfectly. The only really good thing about the special battery case Yuneec uses is that is protects noobs for burning their homes down. It's really, really hard to screw up the charging process at a 1/2C charge rate. However, they can still get themselves into trouble if they forget about the battery and leave it on the charger all night. If the auto cut off fails to function the battery could go whoosh and there ya go. The Yuneec chargers get a lot hotter than I like to see.
Interesting enough, the battery plug for the H is almost identical to what is used for the Chroma, but the battery has an additional cell with the H so the balance tap would have to expand accordingly I don't have an H battery yet to determine what the 3 little holes are in the front of the battery. My guess is they are balance connections, with the 4th being one of the primary battery poles.
As for battery level, common practice is to never go below 80% of charge, which IMO is a bit too much. It works but it's edgy. 70% is a safe value. Unfortunately that hard to establish with the case design used for the H. Normally one would establish the % value by checking the used battery voltage against the charged battery voltage, and the number of mA that was returned to the battery during the charging process. Using round numbers, a 10,000mA battery would take 7000mA during a recharge if it had been discharged 70%. I haven't looked at Typhoon Charlie's tables but from what I've read of his posts so far he's certainly one to pay attention to.
"cased" battery. In the case of Yuneec, the only way to truly balance charge the batteries is to make a custom charging receptacle for the battery. An example of such a one can be seen at Horizon Hobby in the fast charge adapter for the Chroma batteries. They work perfectly. The only really good thing about the special battery case Yuneec uses is that is protects noobs for burning their homes down. It's really, really hard to screw up the charging process at a 1/2C charge rate. However, they can still get themselves into trouble if they forget about the battery and leave it on the charger all night. If the auto cut off fails to function the battery could go whoosh and there ya go. The Yuneec chargers get a lot hotter than I like to see.
Interesting enough, the battery plug for the H is almost identical to what is used for the Chroma, but the battery has an additional cell with the H so the balance tap would have to expand accordingly I don't have an H battery yet to determine what the 3 little holes are in the front of the battery. My guess is they are balance connections, with the 4th being one of the primary battery poles.
As for battery level, common practice is to never go below 80% of charge, which IMO is a bit too much. It works but it's edgy. 70% is a safe value. Unfortunately that hard to establish with the case design used for the H. Normally one would establish the % value by checking the used battery voltage against the charged battery voltage, and the number of mA that was returned to the battery during the charging process. Using round numbers, a 10,000mA battery would take 7000mA during a recharge if it had been discharged 70%. I haven't looked at Typhoon Charlie's tables but from what I've read of his posts so far he's certainly one to pay attention to.
PatR
Premium Pilot
It would not charge at zero volts. In all probability it would have puffed and perhaps caught fire before it made 2v. Nominal voltage for a lipo cell is 3.7v. Maximum charge voltage is 4.22, but generally recognized to be 4.2v. You really don't want to dip below 3.6 to 3.5v/cell. So 14.4v for a "be on the ground by" number and be looking for a place to land at 14.7v. Lipo's have a pretty steep voltage drop off curve when they near the end of their charge state. I use a higher "be on the ground by" value at 3.7v/cell but I'm rarely looking to get every second of flight time from a battery. I hate buying batteries all the time.
WOW, A ZILLION THANKS to you and to BobW55!
So any chance perhaps some entrepreneurial, clever person might design a proper balancing charger for the H batteries? Ha
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PatR
Premium Pilot
I suspect such will be the case within a couple of months of the H getting into people's hands. Don't be surprised if it comes from Yuneec. The Chroma version did. Bear in mind that once they hit the streets people that don't already have them will have to purchase better, and considerably more expensive "adjustable" chargers. Those of you that don't have experience with lipo batteries should take a little time and read up on them, and about the better chargers used to deal with them. The gentleman in an earlier post that provided a picture of a well used lipo sack and the clay pot did ya'll a favor. He showed you what you should store and charge your batteries in. They aren't perfect, but they can help keep the roof over your heads. Never charge a lipo on a surface that can burn. Ever. I had an aqquaintance lose his house to one.
PatR
Premium Pilot
DroneClone,
I just read that article and one thing I strongly disagree with. A well sealing ammo can is a terrible thing to store batteries in. If a damaged battery suddenly goes of in a tightly sealed container that container traps some very rapidly expanding gasses. That's the same principle behind the design of a hand grenade. A tightly sealed metal container becomes shrapnel during a battery explosion event. Better to vent a metal container in order to control the release of expanding gasses.
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PatR
Premium Pilot
Even as novice as I am couldn't agree more (and I expressed that same thing in the article's comment section in hopes of deterring others from that stupid idea)
I have many ammo cans and indeed they are air / water tight and therefore if a lipo battery went bad inside one it would make an extremely deadly bomb. Want to see HOW deadly? Check this out! Speed forward to 1:08 and watch how much gas and flame shoots outta that battery. Yikes.
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What the **** ? ! WHAT ARTICLE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I did not do an article on a ammo can! or anything on discharging in any device. Please get the names right so you can disagree with the right person my friend! LOL
I was telling him to call Yuneec or learn on this forum to learn more about the "Yuneec" battery!
That one "guy" was me!. No one on this forum has been given a confirmed battery voltage by Yuneec in their manual for the H, as to the recommended landing voltage, nor the first and second voltage levels at warnings. Just "It will vibrate at those levels". I am fairly versed on lipo batteries from studying them, but was not informed to give you a correct answer on the H battery specs, as we have not received them yet, and I am calling them this morning to gather that information and will post for all to hear what Yuneec states.Yes, thank you --but sounds like I'm not the only one that needs a more in depth understanding than knowing just what the "level" is. Like one guy said: "I am setting my landings at 15 volts till I get some answers from Y tomorrow"
Which leads me to believe I have to know something about voltages and how that affects flight and battery time and limiting the voltages and when to land safely --ALL being Greek to me. Like how does one "set landing voltage"?
And I just found out I should use Lipo charging bags in a clay pot outside when charging to be REALLY safe. So out the window went another $50 because I decided 3 individual fire resistant bags for the 3 batteries I bought --to all be stored inside a bigger fire resistant bag.
Oh .. and how does one "balance a charge"....???
As for Lipo's I think it is a little extreme to spend the money on a "Bag" or even clay pot. I wonder how many people on here use them? I have never in 6 years have ever had an incident, not to say there can't be!. If you follow the general rules:
1). Do not under or over charge, which all market lipo chargers for the drones we are talking about shut of and even discharge at correct levels. "Again" they are not perfect, and can fail. But putting it in a "Bunker" 10 feet under ground while charging, is a little extreme!.
2). Put it in a non flammable area while charging, i.e -Garage or patio away from flammables on a concrete floor will suffice. You can even charge it in your house, AS LONG as you are next to it and monitor it for swelling, excessive heat, smoking, etc. and don not leave it unattended.
3). Remove when fully charged, even if the charger shuts of automatically, as it can fail and cause overcharge.
4). Keep your Lipo's away from and out of water and or moisture, as they can cause it to swell and or explode or catch fire.
5). Follow manufacturers information and warnings.
You don't have to handle it as if it was C4, or nitro glycerin and wear a bomb suit , or Level 4 Arch Flash Suit ! Or charge it in a burn bag!
Just my thoughts!
Now PatR, if you want to disagree with these statements, feel free to "Argue" with my NAME, as I authored this posting. But where do you tie my name with a ammo can, you had the wrong man on trial M8 !
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