Is there a camera that does Near Infrared?

SmokinAmerican · Mar 4, 2019

I am looking to get into crop monitoring with the H520. To do true NDVI it says you need a camera that has Near Infrared or a modified RGB. Does one of the cameras for the H520 meet this requirement? If so which one and do you need to change any setting or purchase special filters? I know you can do NARI with the C90 or the C50. I just want to have the equipment to do a professional job. Another question is software for doing the mapping work. Dronedeploy or Pix4D? If there is something else I am missing or should know about this? Any input and information welcome. Side note I am in Israel.

arruntus · Mar 4, 2019

Yuneec doesn't have multispectral cameras. Modify an RGB camera normally, only serves for one spectrum and with limitations, modify an E90 with the price that has would be a nonsense.

With respect to the software, you already have a number of open threads that talk about it.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 5, 2019

Ok for your information, by the way, that is only what I am trying to gather here to make an informed purchase an upgrade from the H+. I know from the H+ there are upgrades and added features that come with the upgrades all the time. I am asking these questions for real-time answers, not something from 6 months ago. In the specs for the CGOET it shows the camera does work with the NIR filter. If you go to the dronedeploy website they talk directly about to use the NDVI format for crop health you need a camera that works NIR so you get the high resolutions between the pixels and not a false one due to using RGB like the E90. I am also asking because I am not aware if there could have been an easy way to maybe change the settings in the camera or just add a filter on the lens. There are things some of us don't know and we want the correct tools to do the job. Maybe you should go back and read some of your other open threads, there are many, maybe you can find the answer from a thread 6 months ago.

RkamilC · Mar 5, 2019

For NDVI you must modify E50 camera with replacing matrix cover: Yuneec Typhoon Camera Extended Threaded Lens Mount – Peau Productions + lense: 8.25mm f/3.0 41d HFOV 16MP (No Distortion) (RGN) – Peau Productions. That mod also worked with CGO3 in typhoon.
Mod for E90 is impossible.
Eventually you can fly with separate ndvi camera.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 5, 2019

RkamilC said:
For NDVI you must modify E50 camera with replacing matrix cover: Yuneec Typhoon Camera Extended Threaded Lens Mount – Peau Productions + lense: 8.25mm f/3.0 41d HFOV 16MP (No Distortion) (RGN) – Peau Productions. That mod also worked with CGO3 in typhoon.
Mod for E90 is impossible.
Eventually you can fly with separate ndvi camera.

Thank you for the information.

arruntus · Mar 5, 2019

That is precisely what I wanted to tell you, if you modify the camera can no longer be used again as a RGB camera. Normally hacking consists of removing a layer that has the lens, and then switching between different types of filters. But you leave the camera useless. This type of hacks are made on much cheaper cameras than the E50 or E90. This is why I commented that it is not worth it.

The other option is to use a multispectral camera with the H520 or directly another drone that has many more integration possibilities than the H520. It is true that many people are adding thermal or multispectral cameras to the H520, but this leads to serious limitations in the performance of the aircraft since it is not prepared, even if it can, for weight gain.

Can it be done? Yes, is it worth it? I don't think so.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

arruntus said:
That is precisely what I wanted to tell you, if you modify the camera can no longer be used again as a RGB camera. Normally hacking consists of removing a layer that has the lens, and then switching between different types of filters. But you leave the camera useless. This type of hacks are made on much cheaper cameras than the E50 or E90. This is why I commented that it is not worth it.

The other option is to use a multispectral camera with the H520 or directly another drone that has many more integration possibilities than the H520. It is true that many people are adding thermal or multispectral cameras to the H520, but this leads to serious limitations in the performance of the aircraft since it is not prepared, even if it can, for weight gain.

Can it be done? Yes, is it worth it? I don't think so.

Thanks for the information. This was more of what I was looking for. I don't know if you know the answer to this question. It might look like the E90 might go into the NIR spectrum if you put it into the night mode. We are trying to find out from Yuneec exactly what the specs are for the E90 as far the what are the exact ranges. Also, we are looking at maybe having Yuneec at the factory modify the camera to be able to do this. How are people add multispectral camera to the H520??

arruntus · Mar 6, 2019

SmokinAmerican said:
Thanks for the information. This was more of what I was looking for. I don't know if you know the answer to this question. It might look like the E90 might go into the NIR spectrum if you put it into the night mode. We are trying to find out from Yuneec exactly what the specs are for the E90 as far the what are the exact ranges. Also, we are looking at maybe having Yuneec at the factory modify the camera to be able to do this. How are people add multispectral camera to the H520??

I asked something similar some time ago to a colleague that we have in the commercial forum about the spectres and the answer was negative. The infrared ranges are totally different, lower, than the thermal. He put an image with the scheme of range in which is divided the light where it was clear, I do not find it now .............

They add handmade brackets of different shapes to anchor another manufacturer's camera. Look around this forum and on Youtube and you'll find some examples of how ingenious people are, all DIY projects.

Snagglesworth · Mar 6, 2019

There's some information here about stripping down the e90. The filter is located in the lens assembly and not on the sensor so it may be possible to remove it but then you will have to refocus the lens which could be difficult.

H520 and E90 parts and teardown

For those who like me just want to know. After all what else am I going to do with them. :p:D GPS Compass H520 only Camera slide mount same as H480 Propeller base same as H480, tricolour led cover H520 only Tri colour LED H520 only IMU H520 Only

yuneecpilots.com

Eagle's Eye Video · Mar 6, 2019

I recommend against all of this. The base software you want to use is not compatible. I inquired when DroneDeploy would release a version that will work with Yuneec products.
They recommended I buy a DJI... ?.

If you follow the current path, you will spend money modifying your Yuneec airframe to accomodate the hardware requirements, with no usable software to use with it.

As much as it sucks, their assessment is correct... research the software you have available to use, then subsequently get the brand hardware that will be able to utilize that software.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

Eagle's Eye Video said:
I recommend against all of this. The base software you want to use is not compatible. I inquired when DroneDeploy would release a version that will work with Yuneec products.
They recommended I buy a DJI... ?.

If you follow the current path, you will spend money modifying your Yuneec airframe to accomodate the hardware requirements, with no usable software to use with it.

As much as it sucks, their assessment is correct... research the software you have available to use, then subsequently get the brand hardware that will be able to utilize that software.

You should really stop swearing (saying the DJIword) I know DroneDeploy is recommended to use The D word but did not know that it would not function with Yuneec. How is Yuneec so far out of the game in this field?? I am just asking you because I think you might have a way to get the proper answers. I saw on Youtube a video of I think it was the H520 doing mapping and the analysis of the crop using DroneDeploy. Does it work for the GRB that would be the E90 for the VARI algorithm from Drone Deploy? I know for the NDVI algorithm it takes a multispectral camera that has NIR range to give true readings. If you have any advice on how to do this or have a working solution I am very interested to hear. I have a chance to trade my THP for the H520, paying the difference between the two. I want a platform that will provide the most opportunities for work. I am here in Isreal and the mapping, measuring and crop monitoring is becoming fast-growing industries for drones. I was also looking to add the RTK in the near future to start doing the survey and accurate measuring services. Thanks in advance.

Eagle's Eye Video · Mar 6, 2019

I think this is more than anything else a matter of exclusivity agreements between D*I and DroneDeploy... I have looked into this as well, and I would say that DD would need some sort of backend mod to even attempt to be used with Yuneec products. Unfortunately I do not have the background for that, and I would not want to begin a series of NDVI filter mods to the C23, which by their very nature would render the camera unusable for anything but NDVI use, without a compatible software package.

10-8 · Mar 6, 2019

DD has an NDVI algorithm for RGB cameras and the 520 works fine with that. As does the GoPro. While maybe not as accurate, it certainly can work for many applications. I used it with a GoPro with non fisheye lens before I bought a Mapir NIR camera. The colors were slightly different but the information was very close. Walking parts of the field to verify (always recommended) confirmed the images. Here is an NDVI from the 520/E90 through DD:

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

Eagle's Eye Video said:
I think this is more than anything else a matter of exclusivity agreements between D*I and DroneDeploy... I have looked into this as well, and I would say that DD would need some sort of backend mod to even attempt to be used with Yuneec products. Unfortunately I do not have the background for that, and I would not want to begin a series of NDVI filter mods to the C23, which by their very nature would render the camera unusable for anything but NDVI use, without a compatible software package.

I was not thinking of using the THP for the monitoring but the H520 with the E90 camera.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

10-8 said:
DD has an NDVI algorithm for RGB cameras and the 520 works fine with that. As does the GoPro. While maybe not as accurate, it certainly can work for many applications. I used it with a GoPro with non fisheye lens before I bought a Mapir NIR camera. The colors were slightly different but the information was very close. Walking parts of the field to verify (always recommended) confirmed the images. Here is an NDVI from the 520/E90 through DD:
View attachment 14926

I have seen this picture. It is here in Israel. Whom is this? 10-8

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

10-8 said:
DD has an NDVI algorithm for RGB cameras and the 520 works fine with that. As does the GoPro. While maybe not as accurate, it certainly can work for many applications. I used it with a GoPro with non fisheye lens before I bought a Mapir NIR camera. The colors were slightly different but the information was very close. Walking parts of the field to verify (always recommended) confirmed the images. Here is an NDVI from the 520/E90 through DD:
View attachment 14926

What drone are you using for the Mapir and which camera from them? How did you mount the camera if it is not a DJI drone? Also, software to operate the camera on the drone?? Sorry, so many questions.

Eagle's Eye Video · Mar 6, 2019

SmokinAmerican said:
I was not thinking of using the THP for the monitoring but the H520 with the E90 camera.

For the purposes of this discussion, the E90 and the C23 are the same camera.

SmokinAmerican said:
What drone are you using for the Mapir and which camera from them? How did you mount the camera if it is not a DJI drone? Also, software to operate the camera on the drone?? Sorry, so many questions.

From what I can tell you do need to use the Nadir NIR with a DJI product as those are the only mounts on their site... but since you are replacing the camera, you could go with a lower end airframe model and get the hardware for under $1500... that's better than when I last looked into the entry point at being about $4000 before software.

SmokinAmerican · Mar 6, 2019

Eagle's Eye Video said:
For the purposes of this discussion, the E90 and the C23 are the same camera.

From what I can tell you do need to use the Nadir NIR with a DJI product as those are the only mounts on their site... but since you are replacing the camera, you could go with a lower end airframe model and get the hardware for under $1500... that's better than when I last looked into the entry point at being about $4000 before software.

I was wondering if you could use the H520 with the Mapir 3 and figure out the mounts. So you think it would be best to go with a (DJ) base and a camera from Mapir to do the NDVI? I can use the H520 to do the Vari work with the E90. The THP doesn't have the autonomous flight for the flight programming. And about the RGB camera in the NDVI algorithm for DD it is not a true result according to there page. That it is called false because you need a NIR to use this algorithm. I am just trying to get it right so I can deliver a professional service and product.

Eagle's Eye Video · Mar 6, 2019

It certainly would be an experiment... and yes, if you were to try this, the 520 would be the choice to work with... I would only suggest that adding all the factors together... reasonable options for a lower entry level cost, on the dominant airframe... which ensures easier access to both subsequent hardware and software support...

If you are looking to get into NDVI, and do not have an established client base, it is counter-intuitive to be expending effort into trying to make Yuneec's hex shaped peg fit into a square NDVI hole... so to speak, IMHO.

10-8 · Mar 6, 2019

I have done quite a few maps using the DD RGB to NDVI feature for a couple of the farms here. Walking the fields after showed that the images were correct. This was about 2-3 years ago and I was using the 3DR solo for the GoPro and Mapir cameras. Using the E90 on the 520 would work the same or better.