It was just a dream: Build 777

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I am not fortunate to be flying on a big open green field, filled with butterflies, and unicorns. Some of us flies in an urban setting and others, including myself spend the majority of my time flying in the pits. I was excited for Build 777, I raved about my first initial after my update, I thought it was the answer to the symptoms that I was having, with build 757, but in reality, Build 777 is a placebo, a band-aid, a patch with little documentation as always, and what did it really patch? Some will claim that it fixed All of the problems from the previous FW builds. Therefore let's put to the test and test Build 777 in a not so ideal of a location, because let's face it, without denying the H series are dubbed as a "DJI Killer"

I finally got an HDMI screen recorder, so I can capture a visual telemetry and most of all, show proofs of my headaches with Yuneec, and Yuneec sUAS is not ready for prime-time. If this drone can't make it here, it cannot make it anywhere, and now, I am questioning the reliability of the H520 (if ever I get one) in the world of construction.

 

[pixelzombie]

Do you get that kind of lag when flying over a grassy field?

 

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Staying silent is not the American way. Yuneec has a problem and we all know it, some are in denial. There are some features has worked the original H should of been implemented on the H+ and by now, Yuneec already has a good idea of what to fix.

And for instance, no one really knows how to use the CCC and how to get to the advanced “secret menu?” As well as other features because it’s is not fully explained by Yuneec.


These drones are mere toys, but there are others who will use it for work. The H+ is said to be a cinematography SUAS but it missing or lack the features as well as controls.

@Peggy has documented this, as well as brought it during his live show in YouTube.

We all support the product, but don’t be silent if there’s a problem, the first problem that I’ve had with feed pixilations, others thought it was just me, until others started posting about it.

So, if you want the product to succeed, don’t be silent, nitpick it and I’m sure the testers will implement these findings in the new FW Build. Because like I’ve said, some of use don’t shoot corn maze and call it a hired contract.

 

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Do you get that kind of lag when flying over a grassy field?

I haven’t tried, I’m not yet retired.

 

[AH-1G]

There's an effective way in expressing yourself. I'm not saying to be totally silent. We're all aware of these issues.

 

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You’re a pilot, correct? And when your helo does not function correctly, you remain silent?

 

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Aware of the issue? So, you’re aware, what’s the next move?

YouTube and Instagram are a powerful social tools and in forums, I know the testers are keeping tabs. Kudos to their hard work, because we can’t all fix things with Velcro, bro.

 

[AH-1G]

I never said I remained silent, pilots would write up issues they experienced, if any, from there it goes to the appropriate channels to get it corrected. But, you just assume what you don't know.
Again, there's an appropriate way how to express your frustrations without being sarcastic and bashing.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

RPR,

First things first... I am not writing to discount your findings, experiences, or opinions about your H+, build 777, or your particular mission environments.

What I want to ask is more related to your recorder setup, testing, etc al. I am coming from the perspective of having set up my own “copy” of Pat’s setup (TyPilot). I have yet to record an actual flight with successful playback, to the point of ordering a replacement recorder. (I have yet to test the new recorder.). The playback is worse than the example you posted, using my H480s and my H520. I know the actual ST16 live view was good.

What I am asking is this: have you already done so, or if not, do you have the means to record a test capture of your ST16s view, in a controlled environment whereby external factors are not an issue AND the ST16s display has no appreciable lag or stuttering? I am curious if your equipment will provide you with lag free video from an issues free ST16s “play” while your H+ is simply sitting on a table, motors off, and just panning the camera so some motion is detectable when replaying the recorded video.

Once “we” can confirm the recorder setup, including any memory stick used by said recorder can actually handle the job, we can then concentrate on the possible issues of actual flight.

Again, I only suggest this as a controlled troubleshooting process, given all the variables. As testers, we have to eliminate as many variables as we can, or confirm those variables are not part of the problem, before we can come to any sound conclusion (I.e. void of doubt and the inherent “what about this?”) as to what the real causes are for the issues we are observing.

Once the causes, conditions, et al are known as to the when, why, and where, only then can a real solution be sought.

Hope this makes sense and is not viewed as just another ramble.

Jeff

 

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RPR,

First things first... I am not writing to discount your findings, experiences, or opinions about your H+, build 777, or your particular mission environments.

What I want to ask is more related to your recorder setup, testing, etc al. I am coming from the perspective of having set up my own “copy” of Pat’s setup (TyPilot). I have yet to record an actual flight with successful playback, to the point of ordering a replacement recorder. (I have yet to test the new recorder.). The playback is worse than the example you posted, using my H480s and my H520. I know the actual ST16 live view was good.

What I am asking is this: have you already done so, or if not, do you have the means to record a test capture of your ST16s view, in a controlled environment whereby external factors are not an issue AND the ST16s display has no appreciable lag or stuttering? I am curious if your equipment will provide you with lag free video from an issues free ST16s “play” while your H+ is simply sitting on a table, motors off, and just panning the camera so some motion is detectable when replaying the recorded video.

Once “we” can confirm the recorder setup, including any memory stick used by said recorder can actually handle the job, we can then concentrate on the possible issues of actual flight.

Again, I only suggest this as a controlled troubleshooting process, given all the variables. As testers, we have to eliminate as many variables as we can, or confirm those variables are not part of the problem, before we can come to any sound conclusion (I.e. void of doubt and the inherent “what about this?”) as to what the real causes are for the issues we are observing.

Once the causes, conditions, et al are known as to the when, why, and where, only then can a real solution be sought.

Hope this makes sense and is not viewed as just another ramble.

Jeff

Good point Jeff,

Let’s do a series of elimination, the only first build that I’ve only experienced is build 757 and now build 777

I don’t trust soft update and this goes with my other drones. I usually do a soft and a manual update. After each flight I check all of my equipments and load (camera) and all are logged. Preflight checkup, religiously, due to the type of flying that I do, and how I use my drone. My preflight includes all the calibrations, some are not frequently needed, but I calibrate them anyways. (IMU or accelerometer, and gimbal or gyro calibration)

The HDMI recorder, was tested prior to use, my memory stick is fast, and all of the recording equipment are working fine.

I haven’t flow the H+ in other locations beside within the construction sites, I fly daily in multiple locations and I yet to find a day that I can fly the H+ in other areas. Question, what good will that do? Does Yuneec expects its end users to fly in a somewhat perfect locations? There was a member on here who had a flyaway, and he flew in an isolated area. Knock on wood that I haven’t had a flyaway or a crash. Over the years of flying, I know when to land if there is a drop of doubt or signs of abnormality in my end or if my VO suspects that the sUAS is not flying as it should. Safety first.

*** I’ve shared this footnote on another thread. I have since replaced my 4hawks antenna back to the original antenna and it somewhat helped remedy some of the problems that I have been having with Build 777

The stock antenna is faster is gaining connectivity to the controller, but both antennas cannot seem to tackle the problem(s) that I am having. I’ve mentioned this before (because DJI used to have a connectivity issue that Litchi was able to solve) Yuneec need to invest time and money in making their FW close bullet proof, like what Litchi did for DJI or hire @Tuna his UAV toolbox, from what I have been reading is very dependable.

Now, I have a request for you. Once you get your HDMI recorder setup to your controller, kindly fly your drone in busy areas. I at times wish that I have someone who can see the issue that I have been having in real time. There was a flyer in my area with an H480. He was the reason why I purchased my H+ because when I flew his sUAS it flew well in the trenches, but recently he sold his H and bought an Inspire.

I will run another series of elimination, Jeff. Give me time, because the weather here in California has been great and work is still in full swing. However, next week, I will do a downgrade to B757 FW and take it from there, but no promises, work is still a priority and I’m just blessed to be flying drones for a living.

Regards,
Akoni

 

[YuKay]

RPR, I read all your posts and value them for your knowledge and experience - and I know that you are as quick to praise as you are to criticise so I consider your opinions to be balanced. And I guess that being a busy man and also finding time to post here, you shoot from the hip either way and don't waste words.

You also say you have a good line to Yuneec so you are able to discuss your issues directly with them. It's useful that you also share here but don't forget that your fellow forum members are not responsible for any problems Yuneec may have - and may be able to help you fix them…if you don't antagonise them.

 

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RPR, I read all your posts and value them for your knowledge and experience - and I know that you are as quick to praise as you are to criticise so I consider your opinions to be balanced. And I guess that being a busy man and also finding time to post here, you shoot from the hip either way and don't waste words.

You also say you have a good line to Yuneec so you are able to discuss your issues directly with them. It's useful that you also share here but don't forget that your fellow forum members are not responsible for any problems Yuneec may have - and may be able to help you fix them…if you don't antagonise them.

I cannot fix all of the things with velcro and I a problem being silent, sir. I respect everyone in this forum. “Them” is a general word, I’ll keep that in mind.

 

[PatR]

It’s a little tough constantly reading how those that don’t fly in urban environments can’t be as talented, or artistic, or important as those that do. I daresay that someone like Mickeyboo, a photo journalist who shoots geographic compositions for world wide publication, brand advertising, and conservation has more value than someone that shoots to serve just a few people. To constantly demean and diminish others to inflate our own self importance soon causes those being demeaned to shut out those acting in that way.

There are people in this forum that deferred purchase of a 520 and H Plus because they recognized and understood the deficiencies within those systems, electing to wait until others exposed them for corrections still hoped for. Because they elected to wait does that make them smarter or wiser than those that bought early with hope that corrective actions would soon be forthcoming? They might view themselves that way but we don’t read of them lording their superior decision making skills (if such they are) over everyone else.

There are also people that understand image pixilation at the ST-16 screen is not a camera problem, but one associated with signal transmission and reception. They look at factors that would induce pixilation such as mission location, distance, surrounding materials, heat generation, transmitting antenna location, transmitter power levels, and transmission signal type for a probable cause. They also understand that WiFi cannot possibly deliver the range and signal quality of other types of transmission. Video lag is a fact of life using WiFi, especially at longer distances. Lag, or latency for better description, is also experienced with ultra long range signal transmission. It’s a cast iron beatch hand flying a million dollar UAV through a landing at 70mph when you have a second and a half to two second control response latency due to satellite signal transmission, but we learned to deal with it and move on.

Where Yuneec is concerned, could they do better? Sure they could, depending on their business plan, staffing levels, financial resources, and other possible commitments. Will they do better? Until we have a crystal ball that accurately predicts the future we just don’t know. One thing is certain, if they do elect to provide more in their systems the cost of them will rise, and until the industry comes up with and publishes minimum component performance standards we’re stuck with whatever is delivered to us.

 

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It’s a little tough constantly reading how those that don’t fly in urban environments can’t be as talented, or artistic, or important as those that do. I daresay that someone like Mickeyboo, a photo journalist who shoots geographic compositions for world wide publication, brand advertising, and conservation has more value than someone that shoots to serve just a few people. To constantly demean and diminish others to inflate our own self importance soon causes those being demeaned to shut out those acting in that way.

There are people in this forum that deferred purchase of a 520 and H Plus because they recognized and understood the deficiencies within those systems, electing to wait until others exposed them for corrections still hoped for. Because they elected to wait does that make them smarter or wiser than those that bought early, in hopes that corrective actions would soon be forthcoming? They might view themselves that way but we don’t read of them lording their superior decision making skills over everyone else.

There are also people that understand image pixilation at the ST-16 screen is not a camera problem, but one associated with signal transmission and reception. They look at factors that would induce pixilation such as mission location, distance, surrounding materials, heat generation, transmitting antenna location, transmitter power levels, and transmission signal type for a probable cause. They also understand that WiFi cannot possibly deliver the range and signal quality of other types of transmission. Video lag is a fact of life using WiFi, especially at longer distances. Lag, or latency for better description, is also experienced with ultra long range signal transmission. It’s a cast iron beatch hand flying a million dollar UAV through a landing at 70mph when you have a second and a half to two second control response latency due to satellite signal transmission, but we learned to deal with it and move on.

Where Yuneec is concerned, could they do better? Sure they could, depending on their business plan, staffing levels, financial resources, and other possible commitments. Will they do better? Until we have a crystal ball that accurately predicts the future we just don’t know. One thing is certain, if they do elect to provide more in their systems the cost of them will rise, and until the industry comes up with and publishes minimum component performance standards we’re stuck with whatever is delivered to us.

I am not saying that people who fly in a none urban settings are less artistic.

You’re a commercial drone operator and I was hoping that you can relate of why this is a concern. You said it yourself once that you’re dumbfounded of why Yuneec did not implement the things that they have learned from the H 480 and implemented in the H+ I’ve read your post both here and in RunRyder and I value your inputs, specially coming from a veteran commercial pilot.

Yuneec is so close to getting stuff done correctly, but it is always a mile behind the competition, other operators (the DJI fan boys) has seen me fly my bird doing inspections and took notes of its capabilities.

Have you seen a Yuneec drone working the pit? Here in Northern California, I am the only one visible and I have yet to find another another Yuneec pilot to share my experience in real time, the one that let me flew his H480 has moved on and is now flying an inspire. I don’t want an inspire, nor want to upgrade to an inspire 2, because it is not a hex and I am now, reluctant in buying the H520.

I am flying back to Las Vegas next month for my round 2 of documenting the Mortenson build of the Raiders Dome, and I am venting my frustrations, because I really want the H+ to fly in the pit and stick to the DJI fan boys.

 

[PatR]

I have not yet been able to determine precisely why Yuneec has lagged so far behind. I have suspicions, but no proofs. Due to previous experience I'm very aware of the costs involved with pushing out new technology, product improvements, and what it takes to be a market leader. Those costs are very high and those lacking the resources can at best be followers, delivering only as much as their budgets, or other restraints such as patents or government agencies, will allow. Using a hypothetical situation, what might happen if one company has close ties with government intelligence agencies while another company prevents close association? Who might receive the most support from a government in developing and marketing their products? Might one encounter hindrances in their efforts? That such occurs is undeniable, only the actual participants are in question.

As distressing as it may come across, I also recognize that people hoping mass market products will deliver unto them all they want or require are participating in folly. The consumer market will only be provided wha mass marketers want them to have, in a manner they want the consumers to have those features, and on a timeline that best serves the mass marketers. I'll use a real life example with the most recent releases of the Mavic. The entire product series really. Recently they released two consumer versions with different cameras, features, and functions, while removing some features and function from the previous version. If you wanted everything you had to buy both versions. They could have incorporated everything into one version but where's the money in doing that? In the past week or so they released another version along with software features that won't be available to the two other recent releases. They didn't tell anyone of their intent to dump so many releases on the product at once, and delayed the third until after consumers had purchased the initial two. A tangled web. Toss in market disruption by announcing a release delay of the two initial releases timed to coincide with the release of several products from other companies and we see a blatant example of marketing strategy designed to extract the maximum amount of money from customers as possible. In effect they hold control of buyers. If we desire highly specialized, high reliability equipment we have to look outside the group of mass market manufacturers. We will have to pay more for that specialization, accuracy, and expansion capability. As long as we are lulled into believing manufacturers are looking out for our best interests we will continue to be hosed by people interested only in how much of our money they can extract from us.

What mass market product users are stuck with is selecting and using multiple platforms that serve specific functions as best as possible. Manufacturers do not want us to have a single platform that can do everything. Doing that does not provide a continuously renewable revenue stream. "Smart" batteries are another example of that as they force users to buy from a single primary source. We might look at the situation as being similar to all the "subscription" products and services that "will only cost" $xx.xx/month. Individually all those subscriptions cost little but by the time we've subscribed to a number of them to accomplish what we believe we have to have we find the monthly total of all those subscriptions are leaving us broke. We fell hard into that trap with cell phones and other services learned quickly how to take advantage of our weakness.

Until we learn how to "buy smart", even when it costs a lot more up front, we are doomed to accumulating more models as upgraded platforms are released. I don;'know how many models you have but I have quite a few. The funny thing is one I bought 4 years ago is capable of doing pretty much all of what's being marketed today. It's just less convenient to use and requires more in the way of live view equipment. That discovery is what developed the cynical view I have of the current market. There's very little on the market that can provide the image quality that's obtained with a 40mp to 100mp camera and superb flight planning software. What we see in the M series products is only an emulation of what's been available for a long time in "custom" builds.

Thanks for your kind words of respect. You are doing more with this stuff now than I am as I've lost a considerable amount of desire with regulatory changes and how one manufacturer is doing all they can to promote those and more in order to fatten their bank account. Knowing what the future will certainly bring does not cause me to want to invest much further than I already have. The tragedy in that is I know what we could do, and how much better we could do it, but we still haven't banded together to assure our place in commercial or amateur airspace, and that lack of organization is what assures we won't obtain it. Toss in the lack of self control demonstrated much too frequently by ignorant or impulsive operators and the excuse for further regulation of "the little guy" is ever present.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

RPR and ParR,

Thank you for your continuing respectful and insightful discussion. I, for one, continue to learn from those out there with much more experience as well as diverse environments (aka job sites).

Please keep sharing!

Jeff

 

[Ty Pilot]

I am not fortunate to be flying on a big open green field, filled with butterflies, and unicorns. Some of us flies in an urban setting and others, including myself spend the majority of my time flying in the pits. I was excited for Build 777, I raved about my first initial after my update, I thought it was the answer to the symptoms that I was having, with build 757, but in reality, Build 777 is a placebo, a band-aid, a patch with little documentation as always, and what did it really patch? Some will claim that it fixed All of the problems from the previous FW builds. Therefore let's put to the test and test Build 777 in a not so ideal of a location, because let's face it, without denying the H series are dubbed as a "DJI Killer"

I finally got an HDMI screen recorder, so I can capture a visual telemetry and most of all, show proofs of my headaches with Yuneec, and Yuneec sUAS is not ready for prime-time. If this drone can't make it here, it cannot make it anywhere, and now, I am questioning the reliability of the H520 (if ever I get one) in the world of construction.

I'm late to the party and echo a lot of what has been said above but I'll throw in my thoughts.

To those of us who follow the 'H Plus' sections of this forum we do see that you do indeed work in one of the less friendly UAV operational environments. No Doubt. But to say of the H Plus: 'if it can't make it here, it can't make it anywhere' is not how I see it - at all. Perhaps, just the opposite. As mentioned above we have all types of operators in a myriad of fields; but that is the point, there are many types of paid flying that the Plus is actually very capable of doing. As operators I think it is good to report our thoughts and let others make a decision based on those findings and for that; I respect your criticisms of the aircraft and Yuneec. But in the end each of us will make an informed decision as to whether or not the Plus is right for our individual needs.

Lets face it, for better or for worse, Yuneec placed the Typhoon H 520 as their 'commercial' variant of the Typhoon series. We all know how that went, no need to beat a dead horse (the subject not the 520). All of the the 480 variants were/are the 'consumer' version of the Typhoon H, and the Typhoon H Plus was brought out as a 'Prosumer' UAV aimed at photography and videography (those who shoot butterflies and unicorns in big green fields, as you put it)

In that respect, the H Plus is actually holding its own (for it's designed purpose) in my opinion, while it can still be made better. Your type of work is in an extreme environment for the system you are using. I hope Yuneec continues to improve upon the H Plus and if they can get it to meet the type of standards your environment demands well; thats just Icing on the cake for those of us who use our Plus in other ways.

I will continue to watch and read about the exploits from 'the pit' and really hope you get things worked out; in the mean time, I will keep on doing my thing with the Plus. By the way, this week it was New Homes, Bobcats and Eagles.

 

[PatR]

Perhaps I should also add I’m getting old and tired. Having been a bit of a wild one in my youth I’ve reached a point where what I do is decided more from the pleasure obtained in doing it, rather than desire of financial gain. There’s nice things to be said about stopping to smell the roses[emoji4]

 

[Ty Pilot]

Yep, if we stop gaining some enjoyment from what we do, what is the point? As we say in the two wheel world - the ride IS the destination.

 

[Windluv]

(skipping all the other stuff..)

Watching the video, it is pretty simple. Your 5.8 falls through the floor.

Yes, it is only 400', but it is gone. I know from experience that getting the 5.8 signal on the H to start flowing smoothly again does take some 10 - 30 seconds which is an eternity when flying. I also notice the non-panic flying when the lag sustains for several seconds; nice.

A) Your legs on the H are up? Down will cut into the video feed.
B) I think the culprit is more on the 5.8 antennae on the C23; may simply need more power or different antennae. Surgery?