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KAV Status???

Jeff,

How’s it feel to know you are the loudest squeaking wheel?[emoji6]. Or at least the most visible.
 
Jeff,

How’s it feel to know you are the loudest squeaking wheel?[emoji6]. Or at least the most visible.

LOL if having the channel can help people be informed about this, I'm happy.

I really feel for the people who still have drones with KAV, because I was right there with them.

I'd like to see other YTers pick up on this and start publicizing it. I've done a lot of videos on Yuneec products and I know I've influenced people into buying Yuneec drones - so I feel some sense of responsibility to find out what's going on for everyone's sake.
 
I think it is like the “Cone of Silence” from the old TV series Get Smart. Everyone hears you except the intended audience.

Maybe Mr. Dunn and Mr. Mann will lift the dome and communicate with their customers, resolve the problem quickly, and restore some faith in the Yuneec brand name as well as KAV Service. Your silence gentlemen only excavates the hole you have dug even deeper as time goes on.

I will personally never buy another one of your products or use your repair service until you have proved that you can support your product and communicate with your customers in the manner they deserve.
 
I think it is like the “Cone of Silence” from the old TV series Get Smart. Everyone hears you except the intended audience.

Maybe Mr. Dunn and Mr. Mann will lift the dome and communicate with their customers, resolve the problem quickly, and restore some faith in the Yuneec brand name as well as KAV Service. Your silence gentlemen only excavates the hole you have dug even deeper as time goes on.

I will personally never buy another one of your products or use your repair service until you have proved that you can support your product and communicate with your customers in the manner they deserve.

Spot on.

This is an important moment for Yuneec. This could be a turning point for them, if they use it to rebuild the relationship with their customers that used to be so good.

Say what you want about DJI, they have people on the forums who communicate with their customers regularly. They release products the way they should be released. They use forums, drone websites and Youtube publishers to communicate about their products.

This secretive stuff is like cancer. It kills trust. If I'm going to put a drone up in the air, 1000 feet away and 250 feet up, I need to trust it and the company who built it. If I'm going to preorder a new drone, I need to trust that it will be released in a timely manner and that parts to repair it will be available a year from now.

Come on, Yuneec. You've got an entire forum of people here who are dedicated to your products. We're your past and the core of your future. TALK TO US.
 
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LOL if having the channel can help people be informed about this, I'm happy.

I really feel for the people who still have drones with KAV, because I was right there with them.

I'd like to see other YTers pick up on this and start publicizing it. I've done a lot of videos on Yuneec products and I know I've influenced people into buying Yuneec drones - so I feel some sense of responsibility to find out what's going on for everyone's sake.
You need to be in Government, put the wrongs right!
 
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LOL! I'd never last.

You never know.....some gov’t jobs are pretty sweet....I would have stayed in mine as long as possible if I hadn’t gotten hurt......
 
Weight of office? It gets to us all.

Fell off a cliff scouting a compass course, landed on a roadway. Broke both ankles, the RT badly, messed up my back, neck, skinned up RT wrist and forearm. Ended any hope of a future traveling to foreign lands, interacting with the local populace and culture.....and killing them.
 
Fell off a cliff scouting a compass course, landed on a roadway. Broke both ankles, the RT badly, messed up my back, neck, skinned up RT wrist and forearm. Ended any hope of a future traveling to foreign lands, interacting with the local populace and culture.....and killing them.
Well you live to fly another day now. Perhaps it was for the better.
 
I think some experiences from past relationships with Chinese hobby product manufacturers and distributors are in order to add some perspective to what some believe to be a KAV problem. The reports from Mr. Sibelius and those that have visited KAV have left little doubt to what the problem is, and the problem does not reside with KAV. Not by any means. To the experiences.

Some years back I was regarded as an RC, two stroke gas engine expert and my opinions were highly sought after. This was back in the days giant scale RC airplanes were just become popular and the industry leaders for RC gas engines were companies like DA, 3W, Brison, Taurus, BME, and a couple of other European makers. Those brands established the performance standards for all the brands yet to come, and in several cases, still do. But these brands were made in the U.S. and Europ, making them rather expensive and not affordable for a lot of people. Those that couldn't afford them felt they were being discriminated against and locked out of the hobby by the wealthier segment of the RC community and complained loudly about deserving to participate, demanding that prices be reduced to a level that would make them affordable by anyone. As the cost of engineering, materials, and manufacturing labor were never going to get lower the engine manufacturers didn't even consider dropping their shorts. However, the Chinese hobby manufacturers saw an opportunity so they obtained various engine models from the quality engine manufacturers and reverse engineered them in order to mass produce them at lower prices, and lower performance and quality levels. That's how Chinese brand names like DLE, DLA, RCGF, and others came into being. I was one of those that reviewed new engine designs and reported their performance to the modeling community.

Regardless of quality and performance, the Chinese brands were cheaply made and sold at much lower prices than the brands that had established performance and quality standards. They sold in very large numbers and when combined with other cheap Chinese knock off products, allowed many to enter giant scale that really could not afford to participate. Regardless, there were more than a few opportunities to become and brand's sole importer oran area distributor, but without fail every Chinese company required the same conditions of those importing or selling their products. They all also engaged in the same business practices afterwards. The Chinese makers required their products be bought in full container volume, the wholesale cost of product, including shipping, be paid via wire transfer prior to a container moving, that a minimum monthly purchase volume be maintained by the retail distributor, regardless of whether or not the previous quantity had been sold, dealers were expected to perform warranty and/or repair work, and manufactures were to compensate dealers for their warranty labor. Fail to perform to those standards could see a new dealer opening up right next door to you. The Chinese distributors cared not one twit for their customers, all they cared about was getting their product out of the factory warehouses and putting cash in their banks.

It did not take very long for another common practice to expose itself; the Chinese manufacturers did not provide spare parts for warranty or crash repairs (sound familiar?), yet they still required their dealers to perform the work. Sending defective or broken engines back to China for repair was a non starter. Either the action would never get authorized or if sent, product often just disappeared, with the customers left holding the bag. Some dealer had high ethics levels and made those lost products good out of their own pockets. As dealers lacked a parts supply to make repairs, they resorted to disassembling good engines to obtain parts to fix broken engines. The impact of that was doubled up as the dealer was not reimbursed for the parts consumed in repairs and they removed a good engine that could have been sold from their salable inventory. So they lost in the sale of patrts and they lost in the sale of complete engines they they had already paid for. That loss of revenue doubled again as dealers discovered that most of the warranty work they were performing ended up being done for free as the Chinese manufacturers generally never paid them what was promised, so dealers bankrupted left and right. In essence, the Chinese manufacturers took the money upfront for their product, demanded continuity of sales volume, and said, "so sorry, no understand" when they were tasked with keeping their end of the agreement.

Some of what I perceive happening with or at KAV has appearances very similar to what has occurred before. Making this more troubling is Yuneec's history of failing to pay their suppliers, and remaining in default forever afterwards. Look to their creditor history back around the period the original 920 was being produced for the evidence of that. SOmething that supports a perception that Yuneec has again failed to make payments is that KAV is performing repairs where warranty work will not be involved. That tells me that KAV has reached the point they no longer can absorb the labor being expended for warranty work that isn't being paid for by Yuneec. You can't stay in business paying money out when no money is coming in, and the cost of employee labor is nothing to sneeze at. For every $ you pay someone you pay an additional $0.33 to $0.95/hr on top of it for tax, insurance, and benefits overhead.

That KAV is not making public statements related to the situation is commendable. That tells me they are hoping the situation can be corrected and that business can resume afterwards. The customer gets the short stick in all this as anything related to the customer ends up in neon lights in front of the public within minutes, which is exactly what can't be allowed to happen if there is any hope of getting paid. So I think KAV is not a concern. Worst case they end up shipping back unresolved warranty units to the people that sent them. They can't really say much of anything to the people sending them warranty repairs work without appearing to commit to doing the work. That's something they have likely ceased doing as a means of leveraging Yuneec into taking care of back due payables.
 
You never know.....some gov’t jobs are pretty sweet....I would have stayed in mine as long as possible if I hadn’t gotten hurt......
I did more than 11 years in the military. In retrospect I probably should have looked at some kind of GS job after that.
 
I did more than 11 years in the military. In retrospect I probably should have looked at some kind of GS job after that.

Same general processes, you’re nobody unless you’re somebody, more difficult to get fired, a little more money up front, but you get quickly abandoned if and when injuries or medical issues occur.

If you loved the military you would have been ecstatic in government, but if you could think for yourself the frustration level would have been off the chart.
 
Great post Pat. I see that you definitely know the process. I never dealt with it to that depth but had a similar situation with wheels for my car. I ordered Volk wheels and the only importer at the time was Makin Industries. I received the wheels and 1 was damaged. The distributers hands were tied because the importer was the hold up on the warranty.

I only hope this all gets fixed soon. Yuneec is missing the biggest shopping season of the year here and this isn't the time to be dropping the ball.

Thank You all again for your efforts in finding out what is going on.


I think some experiences from past relationships with Chinese hobby product manufacturers and distributors are in order to add some perspective to what some believe to be a KAV problem. The reports from Mr. Sibelius and those that have visited KAV have left little doubt to what the problem is, and the problem does not reside with KAV. Not by any means. To the experiences.

Some years back I was regarded as an RC, two stroke gas engine expert and my opinions were highly sought after. This was back in the days giant scale RC airplanes were just become popular and the industry leaders for RC gas engines were companies like DA, 3W, Brison, Taurus, BME, and a couple of other European makers. Those brands established the performance standards for all the brands yet to come, and in several cases, still do. But these brands were made in the U.S. and Europ, making them rather expensive and not affordable for a lot of people. Those that couldn't afford them felt they were being discriminated against and locked out of the hobby by the wealthier segment of the RC community and complained loudly about deserving to participate, demanding that prices be reduced to a level that would make them affordable by anyone. As the cost of engineering, materials, and manufacturing labor were never going to get lower the engine manufacturers didn't even consider dropping their shorts. However, the Chinese hobby manufacturers saw an opportunity so they obtained various engine models from the quality engine manufacturers and reverse engineered them in order to mass produce them at lower prices, and lower performance and quality levels. That's how Chinese brand names like DLE, DLA, RCGF, and others came into being. I was one of those that reviewed new engine designs and reported their performance to the modeling community.

Regardless of quality and performance, the Chinese brands were cheaply made and sold at much lower prices than the brands that had established performance and quality standards. They sold in very large numbers and when combined with other cheap Chinese knock off products, allowed many to enter giant scale that really could not afford to participate. Regardless, there were more than a few opportunities to become and brand's sole importer oran area distributor, but without fail every Chinese company required the same conditions of those importing or selling their products. They all also engaged in the same business practices afterwards. The Chinese makers required their products be bought in full container volume, the wholesale cost of product, including shipping, be paid via wire transfer prior to a container moving, that a minimum monthly purchase volume be maintained by the retail distributor, regardless of whether or not the previous quantity had been sold, dealers were expected to perform warranty and/or repair work, and manufactures were to compensate dealers for their warranty labor. Fail to perform to those standards could see a new dealer opening up right next door to you. The Chinese distributors cared not one twit for their customers, all they cared about was getting their product out of the factory warehouses and putting cash in their banks.

It did not take very long for another common practice to expose itself; the Chinese manufacturers did not provide spare parts for warranty or crash repairs (sound familiar?), yet they still required their dealers to perform the work. Sending defective or broken engines back to China for repair was a non starter. Either the action would never get authorized or if sent, product often just disappeared, with the customers left holding the bag. Some dealer had high ethics levels and made those lost products good out of their own pockets. As dealers lacked a parts supply to make repairs, they resorted to disassembling good engines to obtain parts to fix broken engines. The impact of that was doubled up as the dealer was not reimbursed for the parts consumed in repairs and they removed a good engine that could have been sold from their salable inventory. So they lost in the sale of patrts and they lost in the sale of complete engines they they had already paid for. That loss of revenue doubled again as dealers discovered that most of the warranty work they were performing ended up being done for free as the Chinese manufacturers generally never paid them what was promised, so dealers bankrupted left and right. In essence, the Chinese manufacturers took the money upfront for their product, demanded continuity of sales volume, and said, "so sorry, no understand" when they were tasked with keeping their end of the agreement.

Some of what I perceive happening with or at KAV has appearances very similar to what has occurred before. Making this more troubling is Yuneec's history of failing to pay their suppliers, and remaining in default forever afterwards. Look to their creditor history back around the period the original 920 was being produced for the evidence of that. SOmething that supports a perception that Yuneec has again failed to make payments is that KAV is performing repairs where warranty work will not be involved. That tells me that KAV has reached the point they no longer can absorb the labor being expended for warranty work that isn't being paid for by Yuneec. You can't stay in business paying money out when no money is coming in, and the cost of employee labor is nothing to sneeze at. For every $ you pay someone you pay an additional $0.33 to $0.95/hr on top of it for tax, insurance, and benefits overhead.

That KAV is not making public statements related to the situation is commendable. That tells me they are hoping the situation can be corrected and that business can resume afterwards. The customer gets the short stick in all this as anything related to the customer ends up in neon lights in front of the public within minutes, which is exactly what can't be allowed to happen if there is any hope of getting paid. So I think KAV is not a concern. Worst case they end up shipping back unresolved warranty units to the people that sent them. They can't really say much of anything to the people sending them warranty repairs work without appearing to commit to doing the work. That's something they have likely ceased doing as a means of leveraging Yuneec into taking care of back due payables.
 
Great post Pat. I see that you definitely know the process.

What I shared is only the tip of the iceberg. Where the Chinese RC modeling industry is concerned the situation gets much worse and goes far deeper than that. I’ve seen where outside investors put very large sums of money (100’s of thousands of $$) into Chinese companies on one day only to find all the employees had stripped the factory of all the tooling, forms, molds, and design drawings that night to start another company with those and the investors money the following day. The investors only had empty pockets, an empty warehouse, and owed the balance of the building lease agreement to show for it.

I’d continue to place trust in KAV, but none at all in Yuneec. Yuneec used up all their trust when Intel revoked their investment in them and have yet to do anything to show they deserve to be trusted.
 
What I shared is only the tip of the iceberg. Where the Chinese RC modeling industry is concerned the situation gets much worse and goes far deeper than that. I’ve seen where outside investors put very large sums of money (100’s of thousands of $$) into Chinese companies on one day only to find all the employees had stripped the factory of all the tooling, forms, molds, and design drawings that night to start another company with those and the investors money the following day. The investors only had empty pockets, an empty warehouse, and owed the balance of the building lease agreement to show for it.

I’d continue to place trust in KAV, but none at all in Yuneec. Yuneec used up all their trust when Intel revoked their investment in them and have yet to do anything to show they deserve to be trusted.
Is this just a KAV USA problem? Don't see many if any complaints so far from anywhere else UK, Europe etc, so perhaps not truly just a Yuneec Problem, but more of a reflection of the relationship between US and Yuneec and Chinese as a whole, strange that they wish to damage their market reputation there. Perhaps fighting fire with fire.
 
I did more than 11 years in the military. In retrospect I probably should have looked at some kind of GS job after that.

If I had it all to do over....I’d have gone into medicine.
 
Hard to say Mrgs1 but something that should be clearly evident to anyone is that Yuneec USA has been operated completely different from the manner Yuneec UK and Yuneec EU has been operated. Clearly there was some regional distinction made that provided Yuneec USA carte blanch authority in business practices. I agree that it seems more than strange that Yuneec USA is doing everything possible to damage the customer relationship within their largest consumer market segment. No country in the world buys more consumer drones than the U.S.

We see evidence of this in the amount of unsecured inventory delivered to a distribution outfit that ended up going bankrupt and leaving Yuneec ~$13 million out of pocket.

Preceding that we have Yuneec USA shedding most of their management staff, twice, to be followed by a reduction in technical staff and services. Following that we saw the California offices split up and relocated, with service work being outsourced to other companies and inventory moved to another state.

During the course of all that service work has become more difficult to obtain, parts shortages have been constant, access to service techs has been severely restricted, and national advertising has for all intents and purposes ceased. All while Yuneec UK and Yuneec UK have managed to maintain an appearance of consistency.

Yuneec UK has, IMHO, been consistent in trying to help their customers, be that help in the form of direct assistance or through expanded dealer support. Yuneec EU has not been as kind to the customer but I associate the difference with being German, having them more argumentative than conciliatory. Yuneec USA has been taking every step possible to distance themselves from their customers, and in some cases blatantly lying to them.

Now I really liked my Chroma, still like my H-480’s, and truly enjoy the 920+ but having initially associated with Yuneec’s products due to the failure of 3DR I’ve been able to watch the company’s downward progression. I like the products I have but that does not mean I’m blind to the truth.

Yuneec USA had and still has severe management problems and their deficiencies, combined with an apparent allowance to operate independently, has put them on a path that has nowhere to go. OTOH, they may well be operating completely at the directives from the CEO, which, if true, would mean history is repeating itself and other countries will soon be taking a similar path.

Be analytical, review their history, and consider present actions to reach your own conclusions. Let me know what you come up with. I would really, really like to be wrong.
 
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After talking to Yuneec customer service about my KAV experience they sent the following e-mail shortly after the phone call. Not sure why they sent this to me, KAV had already informed me many weeks ago of the damages and projected repair cost. I have already paid for repairs. This is very unprofessional on Yuneecs' part which only makes my next purchase decision a lot easier.

Dear customer,


This message is to inform you that we have received your product and it is safely in the repair department’s possession. We will be notifying you after your repair has been inspected for estimated repair costs (if applicable). After approval, we will notify you when your repair is in progress. If any additional fees are found while the repair is in progress we will contact you prior to repairing your product for additional approval. A final email will be sent when we ship your product back to you.

We believe in a fine quality repair and with that being said our repair team is working efficiently to repair your product to the best of their abilities and give you the best possible customer experience.


Thank you for being a part of the Yuneec Family,

Yuneec Repair Department
 

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