Police handcuff, detain and ticket Part 107 Pilot under aircraft ordinance that does not apply

[PatR]

An example of how knowning the law works to your benefit;
Hood River, OR has a water and event park located next to the Port of Hood River. The water park is managed by the Hood River Port Authority and uses the local police and Sheriff's departments for patrol and legal enforcement. The water park is heavily used by the public for sunbathing, paddle boarding, wind surfing, and kite boarding events. Between the harbor and the water park there is a long, wide sand spit that becomes exposed at certain times of the year based on the water level of the Columbia River. This sand spit area has its own parking lot and the parking lot is administered by the port authority.

Both locations are wonderful places to participate in aerial imagery activities but you have to demonstrate some restraint. When the areas become crowded with people you don't want to be a moron and fly over, through, or around the people but if you fly early in the mornings there will be no people. If you keep you aircraft over the water you can obtain some great shots of event activities when the beaches are crowded. Point being to avoid flying over people.

Researching the rules and visiting with port officials prior to flying there I found it was completely legal to fly at the water park, and that the port authority had no control of the sand spit area at all as it fell under federal waterway regulations. They even provided me with a copy of the port's legal team position covering the subject of drone activities, which supported legal flight operations. After kind words of thanks and receiving their permission to fly whenever it was safe to do so I set out to begin flights the following day.

Arriving at the water park and setting up early in the morning with almost nobody at the beach I was approached by one of the grounds keepers employed by the port. This individual was quite vocal in telling me that drones were not permitted in the port or park areas, that flight was illegal, and to leave immediately. I was polite but questioned his positon on the subject so he immediately stated he would call the police and have me removed. At that point I asked that he delay that action for just a moment in order to review the positions and documents provided by his employer the day before. After showing the documents and throwing the names of the people I had spoken to around a bit he admitted he just didn't like drones and would run them out every chance he got. He was not happy about it but admitted drone flight was legal there and walked away. I visited another location several weeks later, again early in the morning, and was setting up when I heard a shout from behind me stating that "you can't fly those things in the park, you need to take that somewhere else". Turning around I saw the same guy previously encountered. He did a quick double take and said, "Oh, it's you." then turned around and walked away. About a month or so later the same thing with the same guy happened at the sand spit area. He really wasn't happy when he was shown the port had no authority over that land mass at all.

As I haven't been up there is a couple years things may have changed since then so anyone visiting that area should check in with the port authority to check on current regulations before flying anything

 

[Dougcjohn]

Sooo, bringing your baseball bat with you when you "Step out of the car" may impede "relaxed conversation"?

The problem with that is police officers always one or more "baseball bats" at their finger tips as you exit the car, and they aren't tolerant of people that have equality in that area.

In anything we do, and "we" should include members of the law enforcement community, "being respectful" goes a long way towards minimizing conflict. Being able to discuss something without a desire or requirement to intimidate the other party generally leads to peaceful solutions, even if that solution ends in the issuance of a citation.

If we intend to participate in activities not widely understood, or that are governed by complex rules and regulations, we need to learn the regulations that bind our activities. If we cannot point to legal reference documents that establish the framework for our activities we cannot defend our actions. That is also applicable to law enforcement personnel. If they do not know or understand the law, cannot make reference to the code section and code text that establishes their cause or reason for enforcement, they would not be enforcing the law, but would be using intimidation of the public under color of authority to impose their personal views and opinions. To obey or enforce the law, everyone needs to first understand the law. Our courts have pretty well established that ignorance of the law is not an excuse for failing to comply with the law. That is applicable to both the general population and law enforcement.

Agree, I assume most LEO's have minimal knowledge of FAA and associated sUAV, not their specialty. But I also accept & respect it is their responsibility to patrol & maintain the neighborhood, park, or county. Some LEO's take the peaceful Mayberry RFD route and some take a pronounced authoritative route. Verbally, Physically Chest beating or Legally Challenging either LEO personality on "their street" won't produce a positive outcome and normally results negatively. Personally, I haven't experienced an LEO situation that hasn't ended on a nice note... I've had a few initiate with an authoritative defensive tone that defused quickly after a little friendly conversation. I'm comfortable if needed, to legally challenge later but haven't directly experienced the need to pursue court hearings. I'm also comfortable conceding to their authority, I don't see the advantage to challenge... as @JohnDube indicated, it's not an important battle to win... it comes later if needed.

 

[Dougcjohn]

To slightly deviate...
Interesting, this original post... this YouTube has been posted in multiple Forums on the Internet.
It's been interesting reading the comments. Within the various forums you can easily determine by Posters, Poster bio's & various threads there are different age groups that dominate the various forums.

It's interesting, it appears that the younger populated forums take on a little more aggressive position with comments using: challenge, get in their face, it's our right, they can't do that, they work for us, etc. The more Sr Aged populated forums respond with a stronger incidence of showing respect, nice communication, site legal stance, etc.

This isn't just on this subject, I've noticed it wide spread. I know I had little more vinegar (a lot at times) in younger days but I don't recall taking such a resistive stance against LEO, Law, or Society normalities.

Concerning...

 

[AH-1G]

60's and 70's, there was no respect for the law let alone the military.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

It is equally wise to remember your rights, whether dealing with LEOs, a spouse, an annual performance review or posting on an internet forum...

You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say, can and will be used against you.

You'd think people would have seen enough of Law & Order to remember that.

 

[PatR]

Opinion;

Age generates experience, experience generates wisdom.

Youth carries a new found sense of “freedom”, especially during that period when youth separates from parental authority. The younger crowd believes they know how everything should be, or at least how they want things to be, while still bearing the need for independence that caused them to separate from their parents to become adults.

All that is a good thing but youth has yet to grow the ability to balance how they believe things should be against how society has established “what is” will be. That differentiation is likely a lot more difficult to understand for people that came from a single parent household, something much too common now.

Compromise is an art that requires time and experience to become good at. It used to be expected that growth comes over time but the last couple generations have been conditioned to think solutions can be found instantly so delayed solutions generate frustration, and frustration breeds anger along with confrontation.

I think most of us fought “the system” to some extent in our youth, finding that working with the system was more productive and less stressful as we aged and gained life experience. It’s part of the cycle of life and makes the story of the old bull and the young bull relevant in so many ways.

 

[Dougcjohn]

60's and 70's, there was no respect for the law let alone the military.

Yep, that continued into the early 80's... I recall many negative attitudes walking down an airport with uniform on... even so, the public and youth generally respected law. They had their protests, and they disliked military. Many discussions on the "causes" in that area, but on a whole... if a Cop stopped you, it was generally more orderly and respectful, and on the whole more respected. The hippy society challenged many areas... even that attitude is mild compared to present.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Opinion;

Age generates experience, experience generates wisdom.

Youth carries a new found sense of “freedom”, especially during that period when youth separates from parental authority. The younger crowd believes they know how everything should be, or at least how they want things to be, while still bearing the need for independence that caused them to separate from their parents to become adults.

All that is a good thing but youth has yet to grow the ability to balance how they believe things should be against how society has established “what is” will be. That differentiation is likely a lot more difficult to understand for people that came from a single parent household, something much too common now.

Compromise is an art that requires time and experience to become good at. It used to be expected that growth comes over time but the last couple generations have been conditioned to think solutions can be found instantly so delayed solutions generate frustration, and frustration breeds anger along with confrontation.

I think most of us fought “the system” to some extent in our youth, finding that working with the system was more productive and less stressful as we aged and gained life experience. It’s part of the cycle of life and makes the story of the old bull and the young bull relevant in so many ways.

That is a long & true old statement and position... all can relate in some fashion.
But more to your 3rd paragraph and expanding... over the years it's developed into more than differential in growing, maturity, and positioning oneself with society. The attitudes and behavior are changing, not evolving... attempting to change the society accepted "norm". The motivation, entitlements, educational values... changing to more societal rights. The society norm isn't a 50-100 yr development, the core substance was developed and accepted 1000's of years ago not based on personalities of the time but what worked in a society to maintain stability, prosperity, and order; an attempt to minimize disorder. Not saying there wasn't corruption & disorder, but over time that tends to bubble up and get corrected... on to the next one. But as youth ages, the maturity and recognizing a working society isn't being adopted with many in younger generations, not all but the difference is it's not the minority, seems to be the majority... and some of the older generations that have resisted throughout life.

 

[Dougcjohn]

60's and 70's, there was no respect for the law let alone the military.

Sadly I personally feel the current "support" of Military and Law Enforcement will be short lived on the history trail. There are "Many" that truly support and believe the need to support both, but I also feel there's a large percentage that it's an "iconic", hip, join the mass, trendy statement to express or display. That will fade, in the meantime I hope while it's on the positive side it helps develop or create positive benefits to military & law enforcement. This may be partially based on memory of when it wasn't supported too. But it won't take much to swing the pendulum.

 

[AH-1G]

We saw a total disrespect for LEO in the last administration, currently is has toned down a bit for now.
I go back to what the 10 commandments have to offer and should be taught!
There seems to be no more respect for human life anymore.

 

[Dougcjohn]

We saw a total disrespect for LEO in the last administration, currently is has toned down a bit for now.
I go back to what the 10 commandments have to offer and should be taught!
There seems to be no more respect for human life anymore.

OH Boy, I'd agree with you there... but you have to get past the other blocks toward religion.
If you've ever spent time in an ex or current Soviet country, it's basically a "no care" attitude for general life.
My Wife lived soviet until States, and even she sees a similar behavior beginning here.
One difference remains, the family entity is core strong across all generations because that was their only means to survival.

 

[AH-1G]

Certain cultures here do try to maintain a strong family core, but for many others it has been depleting for many generations.
With out a strong ethical, moral and value system taught at a young age, we then began to create our own values base on selfishness and the me mentality.
Ok slightly off the forum.
Respect for LEO.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Certain cultures here do try to maintain a strong family core, but for many others it has been depleting for many generations.
With out a strong ethical, moral and value system taught at a young age, we then began to create our own values base on selfishness and the me mentality.
Ok slightly off the forum.
Respect for LEO.

In my view point, you've brought it full circle. That family core and associated values or the "lack of" has heavily contributed to the decay in the above society values and behavior... and the associated respect and acceptance of law and enforcement. Many haven't been taught the fundamental core values and in the current society with the media information flood it's difficult to accurately obtain through society behavior as previously obtainable if lacking from family.

Keeping on focus of thread... that contributes to respecting & recognizing LEO and authoritative roles.

 

[PatR]

The degradation can easily be compared to rise and fall of the Roman Empire. Many of the events and conditions precipitating the fall are being repeated.

 

[Dougcjohn]

The degradation can easily be compared to rise and fall of the Roman Empire. Many of the events and conditions precipitating the fall are being repeated.

Interesting... recently learned that USA is the 1st successful multi-racial, multi-cultural societies since the Roman Empire. I don't recall the all the others, but that's 1 of many parallel similarities of the two Societies. Maybe History is repeating itself... or simply a common complex society reaches a point of decay.

 

[PatR]

Old news[emoji6]. The decay of the Roman Empire corresponded with progressive changes in their social, moral, and political structure. The Roman Empire lasted for a bit over 200 years as well.

 

[Phaedrus]

I thought that they angered Jupiter and he and the other Gods cast Rome away??

 

[Fred Garvin]

....... The Roman Empire lasted for a bit over 200 years as well.

So we’ve got another 130 years or so.....we’ve only been an “empire” or “global power” since 1945.

 

[Phaedrus]

So we’ve got another 130 years or so.....we’ve only been an “empire” or “global power” since 1945.

At least.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Old news[emoji6]. The decay of the Roman Empire corresponded with progressive changes in their social, moral, and political structure. The Roman Empire lasted for a bit over 200 years as well.

Religion too, they were first to openly challenge the Pope’s control and society acceptance of homosexuality. We express how several cultures/religions don’t tollerate and treat poorly ( kill, torture) in present time; the Christian faith did the same... recall the Pope’s Pear used in torture to discourage. Defiantly diffrent in comparison to tollerance within today’s society after hundreds of years of “progression”?

Empire... not sure the clock started when empire was obtained, or the years developing. Tick-tock!