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Typhoon H GPS Specifications

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I had originally written about waiting 12.5 minutes to download a complete GPS Almanac etc. but what I wrote was based on general GPS assumptions. I knew nothing about the Typhoon H GPS.
I wish Yuneec would have documented this. The cold start time is: 26s not 12.5 minutes. Aided starts are 2s, and reacquisition is 1.5s

Well, here it is -

The Yuneec Typhoon H GPS Receiver is a 72-channel GNSS device based on the uBlox 8th generation chipset that captures the various satellite signals and provides accurate location and time information. It supports GPS, GLONASS, COMPASS (BeiDou) and SBAS systems like GAGAN, EGNOS, MSAS and QZSS. It has an operating voltage of 3.3V to 5.5V, a high quality ceramic patch antenna on board, and connects to the system via TTL serial. The u-blox M8 platform is the choice for maximum performance, especially in urban environments or difficult antenna placement. U-blox modules process signals concurrently from up to three GNSS systems.

upload_2016-10-26_16-35-44.png

upload_2016-10-26_16-36-19.png
Features:

Supports GPS, GLONASS, COMPASS (BeiDou) and SBAS systems like GAGAN, EGNOS, MSAS and QZSS.
72-channel u-blox M8 engine GPS/QZSS L1 C/A, GLONASS L10F, BeiDou B1 SBAS L1 C/A: WAAS, EGNOS, MSAS Galileo-ready E1B/C (NEO-M8N)
Position accuracy 2.0 m CEP
Concurrent reception of 2 to 3 satellite signals, for example - GPS with GLONASS is possible unlike MAX-7C module where only one signal is available at a time.
Up to 18 Hz update rate for GPS-only mode.
44 square mm Ground Plane for better antenna gain and directivity.
Backup battery for efficient warm start. Currently provides backup time of TBD.
Power Input: 3.3V to 5V Input. Or, if connected to an IMU 9 DOF AHRS, may be powered by a Single-cell Lithium Polymer battery.
1 TTL UART port (Tx, Rx pins are 5V ready).
JST-SH six pin horizontal connector - 1.0mm pitch (EM-406, EM-506 compatible).
Dimensions: 44 mm x 44 mm x 8.5 mm
Weight: 35 grams

Technical Specifications:
72-channel u-blox M8 engine
Tracking & Navigation Sensitivity for GPS & GLONASS: –167 dBm
Horizontal position accuracy: 2.5m CEP
Time-To-First-Fix for GPS & GLONASS (Cold Start) : 26s (Open Sky)

Maximum Navigation Update Rate:
For GPS & GLONASS: 10Hz
For GPS only: 18Hz

Acquisition
Cold starts: 26 s
Aided starts: 2 s
Reacquisition: 1.5 s

Sensitivity
Tracking & Nav: –167 dBm
Cold starts: –148 dBm
Hot starts: –156 dBm

OMA SUPL & 3GPP compliant
Oscillator TCXO
RTC crystal Built-In
Anti jamming Active CW detection and removal.
Extra on board SAW band pass filter
Supported antennas Active and passive
Odometer Traveled distance

u‑blox provides correction data valid from 1 to 35 days. The size of these files increases with the length of the prediction period, from as little as 3kB to 90kB. Positioning accuracy decreases with the age of the correction data, with 1–3 day‑old data providing relatively high accuracy and 10–35 day‑old data progressively less accuracy. Regular updates help to ensure a high level of position accuracy.

Note: These modules might be flashed with firmware version 2.01. The latest firmware released by u-blox is firmware version 3.01 which supports COMPASS (BeiDou) signals and concurrent reception of three satellite systems simultaneously. However, since MAX-M8Q modules do not have SPI flash memory on-board, firmware upgrade is only possible during manufacturing process by the factory.
 
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Wow I'm not even going to think of telling you guys I understood any of that I'm glad somebody understands it thanks for posting.
 
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Gw,
Is that a picture of the module in your H?
Would love to see a schematic of that board. I have to wonder where that backup battery is placed in the circuit. Had an issue with a memory board that would go crazy if you connected/ disconnected the back up battery during operation. Could this contribute to some of the control fly away issues
 
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Gw,
Is that a picture of the module in your H?
Would love to see a schematic of that board. I have to wonder where that backup battery is placed in the circuit. Had an issue with a memory board that would go crazy if you connected/ disconnected the back up battery during operation. Could this contribute to some of the control fly away issues
Yup, that's mine and its a V2 board with compass. I'm not sure what changed between the V1 and the V2. I was surprised to see the backup battery but apparently a lot of the 3rd party GPS modules using the u-blox M8Q have it. I believe that's how the GPS retains the satellite data for the fast start, that and 3 concurrent satellite connections which can be any combination of the supported systems. 26 seconds to wait from a cold start isn't bad at all.

I thought positioning accuracy paragraph was telling - "Positioning accuracy decreases with the age of the correction data, with 1–3 day‑old data providing relatively high accuracy and 10–35 day‑old data progressively less accuracy. Regular updates help to ensure a high level of position accuracy."

To me waiting 30 seconds before flying shouldn't be a big issue for anyone. I had been waiting at least 12 minutes if I hadn't flown in a while.
 
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"To me waiting 30 seconds before flying shouldn't be a big issue for anyone."

No but if the H has been sitting around for a week or 2 then you should wait so the new tables are received and installed. That is the purpose of waiting the 12 to 15 minutes. As time passes with out being turned on the accuracy degrades. Sort of like old news. So when you unbox an new H and you send it up with out waiting you are looking for trouble and a flyaway.
 
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I wonder if one could order a v3 board and do a direct swap... the replacement compass I got was a v02 like this picture. as a interesting observation. When I was having most of my problems was when the TH was in transit and finally made it back to me. Sometimes taking that 10 days, or in the case of my first replacement its was direct from an incoming shipment from China and just sent to me.

I found that waiting that 12 + min for the first flight was REALLY helpful. It could have been a bad board, bad battery or what ever. But knowing these details, I plan to still wait at least 5 min once the TH come out of storage for the winter or for an off day where global warming (AKA a Chinook around these parts) takes my normal -30 degree C days and makes them a +10 degree C day....

Its good to have this background on the board however. The fact that the communications is serial, means that for those daring enough you can swap out with other boards so long as the data is sent the same way as this board. Opens up possibilities for those who want to push the limits with hardware swaps.

other than that, it seems like a really decent choice for GPS/Compass board... I didn't understand all of it, but it seems like they didn't cheap out on this part.
 
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Thanks for sharing. Battery backup is retain almanac/ephemersis data for fast 3d fix. The old MTK GPS based drones didn't have it and it took minutes to get a 3d fix, so one could be off by up to 15m (5 decimal places). Some drones from the factory could have had dead backup batteries which could lead to fly aways BUT you'd see it in the sat count (<6 SATs for 5+ minutes) during preflight....

Basically everyone with submeter hold and 11+ sat count is using the ublox 8. It's the best unit on the market for the money. What would be cool is pulling yuneec's config in ucenter. As it will give us a idea how to swap it for the ublox m8p rtk. Or even tweak the config, e.g. airborne vs pedestrian mode, etc...

Only better is dgps and rtk but you can't mix all the networks and slower reacquisition time if you lose lock.

Most flyways I've seen are compass errors as GPS is slow in bearing determination, hence heavy reliance in compass (typically the spiral of death fly away)... Reason why the p3/p4 have a compass in the leg away from emi.
 
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"To me waiting 30 seconds before flying shouldn't be a big issue for anyone."

No but if the H has been sitting around for a week or 2 then you should wait so the new tables are received and installed. That is the purpose of waiting the 12 to 15 minutes. As time passes with out being turned on the accuracy degrades. Sort of like old news. So when you unbox an new H and you send it up with out waiting you are looking for trouble and a flyaway.
Understood. I personally think waiting is the thing to do and have had better results when I do but for those who are impatient and state the competition doesn't need to wait etc. cold start is 26 seconds, chances are most won't fly for at least a minute while they are getting ready even if they aren't aware of it. Having 3 simultaneous connections is part of what makes this possible. I'm still going to wait because my experience has been lost GPS occurring long after 26 seconds however if I wait I seem to get a better lock.

I just think its good to know what the hardware is capable of instead of guessing.

Greg
 
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I contacted Yuneec USCS about this. My question:
"I have been enjoying flying my Typhoon H since May. Since I like to
travel around to different locations to capture aerial videos, I'm never
sure if the GPS has fully updated the location service. I understand
that if enough time or distance has past since my last flight, it can
take up to 12 minutes to complete the update of the GPS location
service
. Is there an indication on the controller or TH that the GPS
location service is fully updated?"​

Their answer:
"Please simply perform a compass calibration on your unit whenever you are preparing to fly in a new location over 200 miles from the previous flight. After this is completed and the unit states Ready in the GPS field you are good to go! Thank you!"​

So, apparently Yuneec doesn't seem to be worried about waiting so long before flying in a new location. Where does this 12.5 minute wait idea come from?
 
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Yup, that's mine and its a V2 board with compass. I'm not sure what changed between the V1 and the V2. I was surprised to see the backup battery but apparently a lot of the 3rd party GPS modules using the u-blox M8Q have it. I believe that's how the GPS retains the satellite data for the fast start, that and 3 concurrent satellite connections which can be any combination of the supported systems. 26 seconds to wait from a cold start isn't bad at all.

I thought positioning accuracy paragraph was telling - "Positioning accuracy decreases with the age of the correction data, with 1–3 day‑old data providing relatively high accuracy and 10–35 day‑old data progressively less accuracy. Regular updates help to ensure a high level of position accuracy."

To me waiting 30 seconds before flying shouldn't be a big issue for anyone. I had been waiting at least 12 minutes if I hadn't flown in a while.
V2 has an INTEL Chip. I believe from things I read, V1 had an AMD chip and there were some issues with it.

Correction: I believe what I read was about The System Board...not sure about the GPS board.
 
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So, apparently Yuneec doesn't seem to be worried about waiting so long before flying in a new location. Where does this 12.5 minute wait idea come from?
GPS signals - Wikipedia

It really depends on whether you have flown the TH recently. GPS has the concept of cold, warm and hot starts for the receiver -- if there is no almanac (such as after a firmware update), it is a cold start and you have to wait at least 12.5 minutes for the almanac to be downloaded.

Without the almanac, position information will be less accurate, and one of my theories for some fly-aways is that this may happen when the bird completes a almanac download mid-flight, has more accurate position information, and tries to fly back to the location that the less accurate pre-almanac position information indicated.
 
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If 5, 10, or 15 minutes is going to make or break your day you need to be doing something else not involved with flight activities. You lack the correct mind set. Flight safety is obtained by being prepared, checks, double checks, and pre/post flight inspections. The equipment is right, the operator is doing everything right. You assure the outcome of a flight before the aircraft leaves the ground, while adjusting as needed during a flight. Those in a rush are just racing to the scene of the crash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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If 5, 10, or 15 minutes is going to make or break your day you need to be doing something else not involved with flight activities. You lack the correct mind set. Flight safety is obtained by being prepared, checks, double checks, and pre/post flight inspections. The equipment is right, the operator is doing everything right. You assure the outcome of a flight before the aircraft leaves the ground, while adjusting as needed during a flight. Those in a rush are just racing to the scene of the crash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nicely said.

"Old age and treachery will always defeat youth and skill."
 
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GPS signals - Wikipedia

It really depends on whether you have flown the TH recently. GPS has the concept of cold, warm and hot starts for the receiver -- if there is no almanac (such as after a firmware update), it is a cold start and you have to wait at least 12.5 minutes for the almanac to be downloaded.
But in their reply to the question YUNEEC cleary see no requirement to wait at least 12.5mins. I'm not advocating either procedure.
 

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It wasn't very long ago Yuneec CS techs were completely unaware that placing the -16 in Team mode would cause the system to perform a more complete search for Flightmode firmware updates. Users knew it but Yuneec didn't. What else may they be behind in?

Personally, I don't endorse anything and just assure my aircraft are safe and ready for flight. I don't hurry. I've had one crash with a camera rig in the last three years, the result of a system failure that induced a fly away. Perhaps taking a few minutes longer to perform system checks prior to launch works?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I had originally written about waiting 12.5 minutes to download a complete GPS Almanac etc. but what I wrote was based on general GPS assumptions. I knew nothing about the Typhoon H GPS.
I wish Yuneec would have documented this. The cold start time is: 26s not 12.5 minutes. Aided starts are 2s, and reacquisition is 1.5s

Well, here it is -

The Yuneec Typhoon H GPS Receiver is a 72-channel GNSS device based on the uBlox 8th generation chipset that captures the various satellite signals and provides accurate location and time information. It supports GPS, GLONASS, COMPASS (BeiDou) and SBAS systems like GAGAN, EGNOS, MSAS and QZSS. It has an operating voltage of 3.3V to 5.5V, a high quality ceramic patch antenna on board, and connects to the system via TTL serial. The u-blox M8 platform is the choice for maximum performance, especially in urban environments or difficult antenna placement. U-blox modules process signals concurrently from up to three GNSS systems.

View attachment 3840

View attachment 3841
Features:

Supports GPS, GLONASS, COMPASS (BeiDou) and SBAS systems like GAGAN, EGNOS, MSAS and QZSS.
72-channel u-blox M8 engine GPS/QZSS L1 C/A, GLONASS L10F, BeiDou B1 SBAS L1 C/A: WAAS, EGNOS, MSAS Galileo-ready E1B/C (NEO-M8N)
Position accuracy 2.0 m CEP
Concurrent reception of 2 to 3 satellite signals, for example - GPS with GLONASS is possible unlike MAX-7C module where only one signal is available at a time.
Up to 18 Hz update rate for GPS-only mode.
44 square mm Ground Plane for better antenna gain and directivity.
Backup battery for efficient warm start. Currently provides backup time of TBD.
Power Input: 3.3V to 5V Input. Or, if connected to an IMU 9 DOF AHRS, may be powered by a Single-cell Lithium Polymer battery.
1 TTL UART port (Tx, Rx pins are 5V ready).
JST-SH six pin horizontal connector - 1.0mm pitch (EM-406, EM-506 compatible).
Dimensions: 44 mm x 44 mm x 8.5 mm
Weight: 35 grams

Technical Specifications:
72-channel u-blox M8 engine
Tracking & Navigation Sensitivity for GPS & GLONASS: –167 dBm
Horizontal position accuracy: 2.5m CEP
Time-To-First-Fix for GPS & GLONASS (Cold Start) : 26s (Open Sky)

Maximum Navigation Update Rate:
For GPS & GLONASS: 10Hz
For GPS only: 18Hz

Acquisition
Cold starts: 26 s
Aided starts: 2 s
Reacquisition: 1.5 s

Sensitivity
Tracking & Nav: –167 dBm
Cold starts: –148 dBm
Hot starts: –156 dBm

OMA SUPL & 3GPP compliant
Oscillator TCXO
RTC crystal Built-In
Anti jamming Active CW detection and removal.
Extra on board SAW band pass filter
Supported antennas Active and passive
Odometer Traveled distance

u‑blox provides correction data valid from 1 to 35 days. The size of these files increases with the length of the prediction period, from as little as 3kB to 90kB. Positioning accuracy decreases with the age of the correction data, with 1–3 day‑old data providing relatively high accuracy and 10–35 day‑old data progressively less accuracy. Regular updates help to ensure a high level of position accuracy.

Note: These modules might be flashed with firmware version 2.01. The latest firmware released by u-blox is firmware version 3.01 which supports COMPASS (BeiDou) signals and concurrent reception of three satellite systems simultaneously. However, since MAX-M8Q modules do not have SPI flash memory on-board, firmware upgrade is only possible during manufacturing process by the factory.
Nice to see WAAS capability listed. If the firmware uses this data from the geosynchronous sats to establish a position fix it will certainly provide a more precise result, at least for those of us that are in the CONUS. Thanks for the specs.
 
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Hello everyone,

We are developing a new RTK GPS solution exclusively for the Typhoon H. We have more than ten years of experience in UAV and drone solutions and for the last 3 months we have been testing our RTK solution with impressive results: less than five centimieters of accuracy while Typhoon is in flight and less than 20s for a true 3DGPS fix with HDOP under 0.9

Please give some time to post some results of the tests, but for now take attention to this: ;)



Taken from the ST16 telemetry logs... As you can see, 0.05 meters of accuracy.

With this accuracy you can do this without Ground Control Points :p



Regards from Spain,
Dario.
 
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Hello everyone,

We are developing a new RTK GPS solution exclusively for the Typhoon H. We have more than ten years of experience in UAV and drone solutions and for the last 3 months we have been testing our RTK solution with impressive results: less than five centimieters of accuracy while Typhoon is in flight and less than 20s for a true 3DGPS fix with HDOP under 0.9

Please give some time to post some results of the tests, but for now take attention to this: ;)



Taken from the ST16 telemetry logs... As you can see, 0.05 meters of accuracy.

With this accuracy you can do this without Ground Control Points :p


Regards from Spain,
Dario.
Can you explain this for us dumbs what this means.....you are working with Yuneec on their firmware or this will be third party app from you ?
 
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Hello everyone,

@dxer: this is not an app. It is just about remove the original GPS of the Typhoon and plug our new GPS board. The new board is preprogrammed with the requirements of the Typhoon Flight Stack so final customer do not have to do anything related with software. Of course, the compass is integrated.
We do not work with Yuneec (for now). Personally I am involved into Ardupilot project development and because Yuneec uses the basics of the PX4 board it is relatively easy develop new products.
This new GPS is intended for professional use, for applications that require a great accuracy in geospace position.

Cheers,
Dario.
 
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