Welp, fell out of the sky this morning.

[toddinroch]

All the files. I have flown it 38 times.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Okay, thanks. I ask because if this is a hardware failure of some sort maybe we can see a correlating amount of run/flight time before failure. I am just grasping for straws at this point. My telemetry files are up to 137 but not all are full flights. I have 72 full flights at the moment for a total of almost 17 flight hours so I was getting close to taking the Plus to a job Wednesday but now that is off.

 

[Wingnutz]

I have the same issue with Geomagnetic interference every single time.

I have also repeatedly experienced strange behavior after swapping out the battery for a fresh one. It startled the **** out of me the first time it happened. I have been fortunate enough to recognize this behavior at lift off in my case. This has been repeated almost every time I’ve flown.
First flight is normal, with no issues or warnings. Sat counts are green for H+ and I have between 8-11 Sats for the ST16s. All batteries being used have been recently charged using a DY5 charger. The issue starts as soon as I swap in the second battery. Upon power up of the H+ with this second battery, all Sats are the same and battery indicator for the H+ shows 100%. The only thing different is I get a warning to check for magnetic interferences.
It should be noted that upon take off each time, I will lift off and hover at 4’-5’ for a short time and check to make sure the H+ is responding to my inputs before heading off in to the wild. After power down of the first flight, and replacement of the H+ battery, the H+ is restarted. The ST16s is not powercycled. As the H+ powers up and reconnects to the ST16s, this is when I get the “Check for magnetic interference”. At no time during the first flight did this warming pop up.
Upon lift off, the H+ does not hover and begins to slowly climb in altitude. The down stick is very sluggish and almost unresponsive in its ability to bring the craft downward, however it does come down, just really, really slow. I’ve also started hand catching the H+ and using the red stop button to stop the motors. In my last 2 flight sessions, in both cases with this swapped second battery and hand catching, using the red stop button has no effect. The motors continue to run for 10-20 seconds (I may be wrong on the length of time, but it ‘s not the usual 2-3 seconds it takes for the craft to power down). It’s as if the commands from the ST16s are not being given to the H+ to power down. This I don’t have a workaround for, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to try and use either the power button or remove the battery with the props spinning, so I just hang on.
If I powercycle the ST16s when I swap in the second battery, the H+ fly’s normal. I have not experienced any mid flight power losses to date and where I fly, I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t find the drone if it went down. As indicated, the only thing I’m seeing in this process is the addition of the check for magnetic interference warning.
I am running the latest firmware and did not have any issues with my gimbal or camera buzzing (to the best of my knowledge). I have also not looked through any of the flight logs as I’m just now seeing a pattern, or what looks to be a pattern in my case.

 

[toddinroch]

Talking with Yuneec. Apparently they are aware of this issue. They are going to do a cross ship of the + and I will get a brand new one .

 

[mbernholdt]

Talking with Yuneec. Apparently they are aware of this issue. They are going to do a cross ship of the + and I will get a brand new one .

So what you are telling us is that Yuneec are aware of a hardware failure but haven't done anything about it yet?

 

[Ty Pilot]

Talking with Yuneec. Apparently they are aware of this issue. They are going to do a cross ship of the + and I will get a brand new one .

First of all AWESOME!!! Second - what problem exactly?

 

[toddinroch]

They did not say. I will update the thread as soon as I have more info

 

[PatR]

Reading wingnutz’s post it appears the system needs to have the ST-16s power cycled when the flight battery is changed. Although the Plus is supposed to be able to “hot swap” the flight battery it may well be that doing so somehow impairs the -16s flight control function calibrations.

The “avionics power low” warning is disturbing, especially with a fully charged battery. I’m presuming the failures have occurred with new Yuneec “Plus” batteries, not H-480 batteries. If they are old 480 batteries perhaps that might be an indication of cell weakness or over current loading of the battery. If it’s the Plus batteries it’s even more of a concern. If not battery related it’s possible a voltage regulating circuit component might be failing to meet design standards.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I have been hot swapping, and while I have not experienced the same as @Wingnutz I have see some behavior that I believe to be from heat. I have checked body and motor temperatures during operation and in flight, using an infrared laser thermometer and have found that upon landing, as the hot components sit; the aircraft body and surrounding components heat up an additional 20 degrees (F) or so. Upon lift off I am seeing the aircraft in a slight climb but this goes away within a minute of operation and seems to correlate with the temps going back down. I have thought this was due to heat as I have read that the barometers can be effected by heat. Just a thought.




Here is a screen shot of the error flags from @toddinroch fatal flight. I see there are temperature warnings in there as well.

 

[PatR]

What are the actual temps that you’ve seen? Hobby grade electronics have a long history of temp sensitivity, especially with radio receivers.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Ambient outside temps was around 95 F (heat index of 101 F) the day I tested. During operation, the motors all had a running temperatute of about 102 - 105 F and the top of the body was about the same. Upon landing and bringing under shade but still outside; the temps of the motors got to around 125 F and the body saw about 115. With the battery removed I measured inside the aircraft and some components peaked 130 F.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

They did not say. I will update the thread as soon as I have more info

Based on prior history, they will not provide any more info... kind of a "here's your new one... now STFU."

 

[Ty Pilot]

Ambient outside temps was around 95 F (heat index of 101 F) the day I tested. During operation, the motors all had a running temperatute of about 102 - 105 F and the top of the body was about the same. Upon landing and bringing under shade but still outside; the temps of the motors got to around 125 F and the body saw about 115. With the battery removed I measured inside the aircraft and some components peaked 130 F.

I would add that within about ten minutes, I installed a fresh charged battery and went back out into the sun, booted up and lifted off to a hover and nearly as fast as I could reach for the temp gun, the operating temps were pretty close to before. Its cooler in the air running than sitting on the ground post flight.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Based on prior history, they will not provide any more info... kind of a "here's your new one... now STFU."

So for those of us that have not had a catastrophic failure, this puts us in a kind of pickle. I am of the mind to call them and explain my situation - that I would rather not wait for possible failure but then, they are likely (and I suspect you are correct) to not acknowledge the problem - that I have no evidence of - as yet. This sucks as I have lost all the faith I had attained from 17 hassle free hours of operation. Now I am thinking its just a matter of time. Nuts.

 

[Windluv]

So for those of us that have not had a catastrophic failure, this puts us in a kind of pickle. I am of the mind to call them and explain my situation - that I would rather not wait for possible failure but then, they are likely (and I suspect you are correct) to not acknowledge the problem - that I have no evidence of - as yet. This sucks as I have lost all the faith I had attained from 17 hassle free hours of operation. Now I am thinking its just a matter of time. Nuts.

I feel exactly the same. Was going to take a vacation day Thursday to go fly/video, but I think I will cancel.

 

[PatR]

Unless you’re dealing with DoD level UAV’s and your program contract specs out forensic details to enable process and product improvements you’re not going to get a failure analysis from pretty much any multirotor outfit. The long version is that giving us that info is to openly admit they had a problem in a world where that information could be shared with thousands in only a few seconds. Such information would give their competition an instant marketing advantage and perhaps alert them to similar latent deficiencies in their systems, which would allow the competition to maintain parity by correcting deficiencies using information provided for free from another company.

The short version is they will never admit to having effed up as that opens them up to liability, and in their minds damages their credibility.

 

[PatR]

Ty,

130* is too hot. You’ve got the background and might remember all the JR and Spectrum receivers that failed inside fuselages exposed to full sun, including those under clear canopies. They started dropping out at around 110*. The solution was keeping them cooler and restricting direct sunlight exposure/thermal absorption by covering the fuselage with light colored towels.

Radio component quality has diminished since then. Those relatively well made receivers were made in Japan or the Philippines with well controlled components. That is not how things are being done now as manufacturing has moved to China. JR even sent out a letter lamenting their inability to maintain the high standards they had before manufacturing and component sourcing was shifted to China. When one of the top robotics companies tells us that quality is falling uncontrollably you know we have a problem. In the race to make things cheaper to increase profits something has to suffer, and quality is usually the first thing sacrificed.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Ty,

130* is too hot. You’ve got the background and might remember all the JR and Spectrum receivers that failed inside fuselages exposed to full sun, including those under clear canopies. They started dropping out at around 110*. The solution was keeping them cooler and restricting direct sunlight exposure/thermal absorption by covering the fuselage with light colored towels.

Radio component quality has diminished since then. Those relatively well made receivers were made in Japan or the Philippines with well controlled components. That is not how things are being done now as manufacturing has moved to China. JR even sent out a letter lamenting their inability to maintain the high standards they had before manufacturing and component sourcing was shifted to China. When one of the top robotics companies tells us that quality is falling uncontrollably you know we have a problem. In the race to make things cheaper to increase profits something has to suffer, and quality is usually the first thing sacrificed.

I 100% agree. I was a Team JR member from 1994 through 2003 during all of that and in fact it was one our guys that eventually split off and helped develop the Spectrum brand, you probably know him as well. I have always been mindful of the heat, especially in the summers here which is why I did my tests. The plus does not feel any hotter to the touch than the 480 but as you say; the radio gear in these things is not as well built as the stuff we were flying 30 years ago. I have always felt that Phantoms stayed white for as long as they did for a reason, the difference between white and black on a sunny day can make a lot of difference under the hood.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

I would add that within about ten minutes, I installed a fresh charged battery and went back out into the sun, booted up and lifted off to a hover and nearly as fast as I could reach for the temp gun, the operating temps were pretty close to before. Its cooler in the air running than sitting on the ground post flight.

Do you think using one of these fans, blowing into the battery compartment (or across the body), when the H Plus is sitting on the ground would help?

SuperShop Portable Fan

 

[Ty Pilot]

Wouldn't hurt, but the biggest thing I am seeing is to - 1] not let the aircraft sit in the direct hot sun for extended periods and - 2] keep in mind that after a flight the hot components 'heat sink' to their adjacent counterparts. It reminds me of when we started flying turbine powered jets and we all had leaf blowers and the protocol was as soon as the turbine was shut down to blow cooling air through the intake ducts for up to a minute to expel the heat of the turbine as it sat. Later versions of these jet engine would use the start motors to spool them upon stopping to expel the hot air until a cooler temp was obtained.