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Level of puff

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Hello.

Wonder if theres an acceptable level of puff in a battery to be safe to fly.
I bought one in May 4th and it got puffed after one charge (and not overly discharge).

If somebody can help me with this will be great.

Check out one of my videos.

 

PatR

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Not really. I've had a few puffed lipo's in my day. I've used some of them afterwards after checking voltage but have always worried every time I used them, especially when I charged them. I've always felt better after I disposed of them. Lighter wallet but felt batter. What you do with a smoked battery is totally on you. Caution says don't use it but you'll have to make the call. If you choose to use them please store and charge them outside of your home, shop, or garage.
 
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FlushVision

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Hello.

Wonder if theres an acceptable level of puff in a battery to be safe to fly.
I bought one in May 4th and it got puffed after one charge (and not overly discharge).

If somebody can help me with this will be great.

Check out one of my videos.

In my book I don't think there is an acceptable level of 'puff' in a battery that is safe for flying since as soon as a battery shows signs of distress it can become unpredictable.

There is an argument, though (if it's not too puffy), to use it for calibration and maintenance purposes but as PatR says above, caution must be taken and you must take full responsibility for it and be extra EXTRA careful when charging it.

Personally, I would safely dispose of it and replace with new. In my view it ain't worth the risk.
 
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What causes that to happen? I have had mine since Nov 2016 and then I bought 2 more batteries - no puff on any that I can see, I have over 100 flights between the 3 batteries most flights were on my number 1 battery. I still use it with no problems.
 
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If it's puffed after just one charge then it's clearly a faulty battery and is potentially dangerous. I would contact Yuneec and they should sort you out I would hope.
 
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If it's puffed after just one charge then it's clearly a faulty battery
Not necessarily so. Far too many "possibilities".
Was the battery brand new when it was 'purchased'?
What was the battery drawn down to on the initial flight?
What charger was used to charge the battery?
How long was it left between the flight and the charge?
Was the battery ever stored at full charge or below storage level for a period of time?
What temps was the battery exposed to?
etc, etc, etc.

Admittedly, it seems very strange for a LiPo to start puffing if it has only been used just once, but there is always an exception to the rule.

Far too often, the manufacturer can be 'blamed' for a suspected problem (crappy LiPo, fly away, etc), but generally, it is the user, or the conditions the user places the equipment that can cause the problem. The problem with forums is that we only have to go on the info we are given. Let's also consider the info that isn't provided.


To also answer the initial question "is it safe to fly" - NO. and it definitely isn't 'safe' to try and charge again either.
 
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I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. He says he bought the battery 4th May, that means worst case it has been sat fully charged for 3 and a bit weeks. This isn't good for a battery but shouldn't cause puffing.
He also said 'I bought one' which reads as if he bought just a battery on its own. He must have the original Typhoon battery which also would be puffed by now if he was charging incorrectly, and he said it wasn't over-discharged after the first flight, the typhoon should prevent this anyway to some extent.

Although lipos are generally fragile and should be treated with care, it seems unusual for one to puff with only one cycle. Yuneec will ask the necessary questions and I'm sure be able to judge if the pilot or battery is at fault.
 

PatR

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The H will permit the battery to discharge to ~12.8v. I have two batteries that reached that level, one after a fly away and one obtained from another owner after he crashed his H. Neither battery will now provide over 4 minutes of use when under a load, but neither encountered the chemical reaction that causes them to puff.
 
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Not really. I've had a few puffed lipo's in my day. I've used some of them afterwards after checking voltage but have always worried every time I used them, especially when I charged them. I've always felt better after I disposed of them. Lighter wallet but felt batter. What you do with a smoked battery is totally on you. Caution says don't use it but you'll have to make the call. If you choose to use them please store and charge them outside of your home, shop, or garage.
I attended a three day seminar on commercial drone usage with a knowledgeable speaker who recommended dropping $10-$15 at amazon.com or any sporting goods store to buy an ammunition storage box. I place my batteries inside before charging and am taking no chances - puffed or not. If you have never seen an Li ion battery on fire, have a look on YouTube and be aware of the risk you are managing.
 

PatR

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Be advised that a well sealed steel ammo box becomes a grenade when lipos go off inside. Drill some holes in it if you use them. They must be vented.
 
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There seems to be two types of "puff" with the H batteries (or hard case batteries). A soft puff where the two flimsy portions of the case deform but you can still squeeze them in and feel the hard battery further inside. And then there is an actual battery puff that is a solid bulge. I have the first example after only one flight. Is this a concern?
 

PatR

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Try to differentiate between a chemically induced inflation of the wrapper due to gas creation and a little bit of lift due to external heating. if it looks like a blow up pillow being inflated you're in trouble.
 
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Looks like a pillow to me. Will have to see if Yuneec will do anything about it.

Previous LiPos that had expanded on me (from other items) had always been hard even when in a soft case.


1.jpg 2.jpg
 
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Interesting... I specifically asked Yuneec if the batteries were safe to use. They just said the batteries were out of warranty.
 

Eagle's Eye Video

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Decided to retire 2 of my batteries, and replaced them with the Tattu replacements... Just for S's & G's,
went over to my local BestBuy to inquire as to the requirements for their recycling service... did they need
to be fully discharged? The employee at the Customer service counter said, no they just put them in
"some sort of bag"... she was obviously clueless as to what is required... so I'll soak mine in salt water for
for a few days and dispose of them myself.
 
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Decided to retire 2 of my batteries, and replaced them with the Tattu replacements... Just for S's & G's,
went over to my local BestBuy to inquire as to the requirements for their recycling service... did they need
to be fully discharged? The employee at the Customer service counter said, no they just put them in
"some sort of bag"... she was obviously clueless as to what is required... so I'll soak mine in salt water for
for a few days and dispose of them myself.
Soaking outside in a bucket of salt water is my go to solution before disposing of spent batteries.

Seems a clean way of neutralizing them.
 

NorWiscPilot

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Looks like a pillow to me. Will have to see if Yuneec will do anything about it.

Previous LiPos that had expanded on me (from other items) had always been hard even when in a soft case.


View attachment 6151 View attachment 6152
Time to revisit!

Anyone care to weigh in: Are these pictures provided by Boathouse indicative of batteries under normal use and are still good to go, or do they fall into the category of "remove from service"?

Reason I ask: I just noticed something curious with my inventory.

  • The two batteries that came with my kit (originals) are not showing signs of any puff. However, their flight durations have definitely dropped. I get to 15v much quicker than my three replacement batteries.
  • As stated above, I have three additional Yuneec batteries. They are showing slight puffiness - seemingly less than what the Boathouse pictures are showing, but nonetheless the case labels are no longer flat. These batteries are still giving me the longest duration flights, similar to when they were new.

My question is, is there some level of expansion that is "expected" as opposed to "no expansion" is acceptable?

I am also taking PatR's recommendation as to an attempt to determine whether the casing is showing signs of heat versus the actual batteries experiencing unwanted expansion.

Thanks for any additional insight. I will keep searching for additional conversations and feedback.

Jeff
 

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I will throw in my experience, though I will state that the vast majority of what I have l learned about LiPos is from experts on this board, particularly PatR and ArnhemAnt. Yes, there seem to be two different manifestations of battery strain... one or more cells will start to show an increase in internal resistance which causes an increased built up of heat.

I have one of my OEM batteries which like yours Jeff, shows a rapid decrease in voltage when being flown... from 16.4-5 to 15.1 in under 20 seconds from initial launching. And when I take internal resistance readings of that battery, one specific cell has a much higher IR. But that battery in fact, has not shown signs of puffing. But because of reduced flight times I have been using this battery as my dedicated calibration/FW update/GPS Almanac DL battery.

However I did retire two OEM batteries that had begun to puff. To my knowledge, that is a more serious case of the heat from increased IR causing a buildup of gases inside the cells. It is this puffed condition that is a greater fire danger, and why it is recommended to not continue use of a puffed LiPo.
 
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