Thing is, the H is SUPPOSED to land on it's own

[PatR]

I don't like the spring loaded center stick either and have mentioned it in the past. Unfortunately the set up was adopted by consumer drone makers to permit the untrained and unskilled to be able to obtain a hover without doing anything aside from letting go of the sticks. The market goes where the money is, and those that have never flown anything before are the largest portion of the market. Those people don't need to have any skills or ability to operate a consumer drone, expecting one to do any and every thing for them automatically. Some drones are better at the fully auto stuff than others, allowing the user to push a button to T/O and land and tap a screen to go hither and yon. People doing that aren't "flying" anything, they're playing a video game. They could save a lot of money if they stayed home in front of the TV. Yea, I know I'm going to catch a little over that one.

 

[Skeets]

You've used RTH twice and it worked flawlessly both times and that means that because you have no idea on what I did or did not fail to do, I'm incompetent? Gimme a break. You have no idea what I did or did not do. I tried repeatedly to explain how I landed and you still refuse to see that somehow it might NOT always be operator error.
What's the point of your "little experiment"? Of course the H is going to rise straight up and drift a little! I don't expect it to act as if it were on a pole. With little exception, how else are you supposed to take off?!? Am I not speaking the same language as you? Just because it hasn't happened in the two times you have used it, doesn't mean it's always the pilots fault!!
Due to the two tip overs I had, I've adapted either by hand catching or by slowing the rate of decent prior to touch down. But that is not because I was incompetent before. It is because it's happened to me TWICE and I know it's possible to happen again. I have absolutely no problem with manning up and admitting fault when it is. This is absolutely not one of those times. Could my two tip overs been avoided? Probably. But that is because I know now what I should have known then but that isn't due to incompetence but due to adapting.

 

[gwhuntoon]

Since you fly 700 size helis I'll assume piloting isn't an issue. It's also interesting that PatR said Angle mode and make sure Obstacle Avoidance is off. I never thought about that last one but my Obstacle Avoidance is always off before I land, also I land in full Rabbit mode, not Turtle mode. Maybe OA is causing an issue or possibly leaving the motors too long in Idle. I know on mine, once the tone changes and the motors are in idle, I stop the motors. I just don't want to chance bumping the throttle or have a breeze or ground effect change an otherwise good landing.

 

[Skeets]

My one and only car accident was in 1989. On my way to my girlfriend's house on Christmas Eve. A fire engine pulled out right in front of me. Totalling my 1978 Chevy Monte Carlo (man, I loved that car )
Anyhow, since it was a fire engine, surely it was my fault, right? Surely I should have given the right of way to the fire engine.

Wrong. The fire engine was on its way back to the station and did not have it's lights or sirens on. It pulled out in front of me off of a side street when I was about 50 feet down the main road. I was not speeding and the guy just pulls out in front of me.
Moral of the story is don't assume you know the entire story when you really don't.

 

[PatR]

Everything else aside, we don't have to wait for the motors to idle to stop them. We can push on hold the button as soon as the H is on the ground. For me that means I might be saving a little battery for a very short flight later while limiting run time on motors and other stuff. The video had me waiting for the spool down far more than I ever do. Realistically I always shut down before that. However, the H did nothing but sit there after landing and would have continued to do so until I told it to do something else. The same as it would do in a no right stick take off but in the opposite direction. It was mentioned several times that after it was on the ground my hand was clear of the right stick, preventing accidental input. I think, repeat think, this is where people are experiencing problems. They either don't realize they are deflecting a stick, and Skeets, that would not apply to you being a heli driver, their neck strap may be causing a stick deflection, and it certainly can, or they bump a stick with their arm reaching for the button before the motors went to idle. They also might not realize the flight controls are still actively engaged until the motors go to idle. They might simply think because the H is on the ground it is done flying, which is not true. You might be but the H isn't yet. It will try to respond to any command as long as the motors are in the ready for flight stage. It does bot beed additional throttle to initiate a pitch, roll, or yaw command, no matter how small. It WILL tilt. With just enough throttle it will roll over

 

[PatR]

As for only using RTH twice, yea, it worked both times but having little need of RTH I haven't bothered with using it again. I know it's there if I need it as an emergency device in a time of dire need. All the rest of the time I fly the thing myself. A message there is if you need RTH to get back you have other problems to deal with. So, sorry if I haven't extensively tested RTH. 99.99% of the time it's just not needed.

As for Angle mode, using it means I'll never walk inside a Safe Circle with the motors ready to go. That's too far to walk anyway

 

[Skeets]

Everything else aside, we don't have to wait for the motors to idle to stop them. We can push on hold the button as soon as the H is on the ground. For me that means I might be saving a little battery for a very short flight later while limiting run time on motors and other stuff.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, you think the second or two between landing and hitting the red button is saving enough power for another short flight and actually effecting motor life? That is indeed some flawed logic there.

 

[PatR]

Call it what you will. Then again, not waiting for the motors to spool down may be why i and others don't flip them over. Turning them off removes the opportunity. Add to that for me these aren't toys, they're tools and use time reduced today is time available tomorrow. I treated full scale the same way, they got shut down at the earliest opportunity since the rental fee is based on Hobbs time. It runs when the engine runs. Did the same on my own plane.

 

[EnlightenOnQ]

Ok i have a question for those with flip overs. What was the surface you landed on?? (Grass/loose material, blacktop, concrete). Also do you have real sense module with IPS rear module?
Not saying this could be the issue but looking at the source code on my other drones that use downward sonar for landing there is some mention of going negative altitude due to an obstruction or material flying up into the sensor and giving it a false reading. So the programming uses the sonar to detect distance to ground and when the distance matches the programmed height and stops changing (it assumes you have landed) and cuts the motors.

Now I don't have a copy of the source code for the "H" and have to wonder if the IPS module is used for RTH/Auto Land ?? it might be a possible issue that when landing on grass that if something interfears with the take off height (a fixed distance from the ground to sensor) that the calculated number goes negative should something like grass give it a false reading and the drone tries to correct by spooling up and lifting to get the TOH number corrected. This would cause a flip over very quickly if Yuneec did not code the system to deal with this. Again don't know if the IPS is used for auto landing to sense the distance to the ground and relies on GPS (bad idea if they did).
My larger drones calculate and average the sonar readings along with looking for the TOH to shut down the motors.

Something to ponder.....

ANyone have the source code for the "H" brain?

 

[Skeets]

Ok i have a question for those with flip overs. What was the surface you landed on?? (Grass/loose material, blacktop, concrete). Also do you have real sense module with IPS rear module?
Not saying this could be the issue but looking at the source code on my other drones that use downward sonar for landing there is some mention of going negative altitude due to an obstruction or material flying up into the sensor and giving it a false reading. So the programming uses the sonar to detect distance to ground and when the distance matches the programmed height and stops changing (it assumes you have landed) and cuts the motors.

Now I don't have a copy of the source code for the "H" and have to wonder if the IPS module is used for RTH/Auto Land ?? it might be a possible issue that when landing on grass that if something interfears with the take off height (a fixed distance from the ground to sensor) that the calculated number goes negative should something like grass give it a false reading and the drone tries to correct by spooling up and lifting to get the TOH number corrected. This would cause a flip over very quickly if Yuneec did not code the system to deal with this. Again don't know if the IPS is used for auto landing to sense the distance to the ground and relies on GPS (bad idea if they did).
My larger drones calculate and average the sonar readings along with looking for the TOH to shut down the motors.

Something to ponder.....

ANyone have the source code for the "H" brain?

Mine was on flat blacktop. Fairly open space. I have the real sense and IPS but neither of them were active at the time.

 

[The Driver]

For me that means I might be saving a little battery for a very short flight later while limiting run time on motors and other stuff.

I was under the impression that it isn't wise to start a new flight with a less than fully charged battery?
Seems many crashes and other issues have been identified through telemetry data when the pilot has taken off with a less than full battery....no?
If you're really serious about saving battery life with shutting it off a second or 2 earlier(ridiculous) ......may as well hand catch and save another half a second.

 

[Dr Delta]

I was under the impression that it isn't wise to start a new flight with a less than fully charged battery?
Seems many crashes and other issues have been identified through telemetry data when the pilot has taken off with a less than full battery....no?
If you're really serious about saving battery life with shutting it off a second or 2 earlier(ridiculous) ......may as well hand catch and save another half a second.

Hand-catch is up to you and your abilities to do so, of course.
Those few seconds extra you mentioned are not really contributing, so let's not waste any more time about them.

Very wise thought though to not engage in a new flight if battaries are not (almost) 100%. Best start out with full capacity, because as we have seen, and all knew, some manouevres spend a lot of MaH. For instance head wind when Return to Home, steep ascent when Return to Home.Also descent in some wind will drain a lot of battary.

Fly safe, pump up those battaries!

 

[PatR]

I did not consider Real Sense or IPS. There could be something in that.

 

[Dr Delta]

I did not consider Real Sense or IPS. There could be something in that.

Uhhhhhh......?

Ahhhh.... a few posts back I see something about IPS.

My 2 cents are IPS downward is an extra on the Real Sense module. So if no RS is on the Ship it will not be a significant factor.

 

[PatR]

DD,

I have never had the Real Sense module or IPS. OA is forward looking, is not supposed to function close to the ground, and should not affect the landing, but who truly knows? An issue with altitude and OA might present itself during a descent though. If OA is using baro altitude as an activation trigger (I think the gear has to be raised as well?) the inaccuracy of altitude measurement might allow OA to think it is higher than it really is and function with the aircraft close to the ground while registering a higher altitude after a descent.

 

[Skeets]

You cannot land at all with OA on. So I do not think that is a factor.

 

[PatR]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Dr Delta]

 

[Flymac]

Just chipping in on this conversation about the H tipping over on landing. One observation I have noted is that, having the left stick pulled back to max then suddenly releasing it so that it 'springs back 'to center', what I have noticed, is that not only does the stick return centre it go can potentially go back past center and input 'thrust'. This could cause a 'tip over'! I hold my left stick right back whilst I finger the 'kill button'.
The H is a fantastic machine - if you don't like it get rid of it to someone who will enjoy it and be positive about it! There is too much 'negativity' out there!
Fly safe all!

 

[Skeets]

Just chipping in on this conversation about the H tipping over on landing. One observation I have noted is that, having the left stick pulled back to max then suddenly releasing it so that it 'springs back 'to center', what I have noticed, is that not only does the stick return centre it go can potentially go back past center and input 'thrust'. This could cause a 'tip over'! I hold my left stick right back whilst I finger the 'kill button'.
The H is a fantastic machine - if you don't like it get rid of it to someone who will enjoy it and be positive about it! There is too much 'negativity' out there!
Fly safe all!

There would be no legit reason to just release the stick and let it "bounce" at center position. Of course that would cause the flight controls to move passed center causing a tip over. That would be pilot error and no one would have a valid argument. There has been a lot of discussion on how to mitigate a tip over and I have adapted to those points, but if an inexperienced pilot were to follow the manual exactly as written (considering some common sense) There is a potential of a tip over.