Referring to the other thread on tipping on landing, Regardless of whether or not tipping is caused by pilot error or proficiency, the thing is the H is SUPPOSED to land on its own. According to the manual, there are two ways to land, 1) pushing the left stick to below middle position, and 2) putting it into Home Mode and the H is supposed to land automatically, using the right stick to adjust the landing position. Obviously, you have to use some common sense and not try to land on uneven ground and what-not, but besides that, again, it is supposed to land without pilot input. I don't know if this is an issue with the other $$$ drones, but I've never had an issue with autonomous landing with my cheap APM drone. It lands and disarms within a second or two without any hint of a tip over.
Thing is, the H is SUPPOSED to land on it's own
- Thread starter Skeets
- Start date
The H sits much higher than most other copters and it has a very high center of gravity. It does require some skill and practice to land well. Add a little wind or the wrong stick input and it's gonna tip. You need to be on the red button just before touchdown if you want to keep all your props. That is one thing I like about the kill switch bump landing.
Although a little cumbersome the prop guard solves this problem i.e. the H tips but it just rests on the prop guard . No props are damaged
Here is a side by side comparison between my H and my other drone. The H is higher by about 2 inches, but the other drone has a higher relative Center of Gravity. I can physically cause the other drone to tip forward by pushing down on the front with my finger. I cannot to that with the H. Also, the width between the landing gear is greater on the H. I really do not think the cause of the H tipping over is a flaw of the physical design of it, but rather an electronic characteristic. On my two tip overs, the H was already on the ground but the motors increased slightly causing the H to tip. I agree that landing in wind is different and you have to adjust the drone accordingly, but my two tip overs occurred in little to no wind.
Attachments
PatR
Premium Pilot
You can tune the APM to limit tilt when control inputs are made. Doing that reduces tendency to tip during a poor landing but unfortunately it reduces reactivity when it's being flown too. Adjust your APM to be more aggressive in flight and see what happens. I have two APM based copters but they both sit much lower to the ground and the gear are located pretty far out on the booms to help reduce tipping. Also have a T-810 using Vector that's taller than your APM hex. It will roll over if roughly handled during a landing.
Sorry man, it still comes down to having some skills. It's sad people want to blame equipment when the perceived deficiency is actually lack of ability. The H is sensitive to stick input and we can't really tune that out. However, we can learn and adapt to that and not flip them when landing.
Sorry man, it still comes down to having some skills. It's sad people want to blame equipment when the perceived deficiency is actually lack of ability. The H is sensitive to stick input and we can't really tune that out. However, we can learn and adapt to that and not flip them when landing.
I have to agree with PatR on this one. I've flown RC heli's long before drones. A part of the teaching process was to strap on training gear, equivalent to two crossed sticks with balls on the ends. The training gear compensated for tipping on the small skids as well as dampen the disc stick motion. On a heli you have to learn that smaller is better in terms of stick motion and learn to manage your collective inputs. Once you've trained your brain, you never forget. Having flown heli's really helped me when I started flying drones. What I wouldn't have given for the level of automation we have now back when I started flying.
The original Heli's didn't even have an electro mechanical tail gyros, now all of the advancements in drones is coming back to RC planes and heli's like 3 axis mems sensors which limit stick inputs on all axis, not just the tail and help to prevent the novice from tipping over.
Unfortunately the best automated systems can't replace piloting skills or anticipate all unforeseen circumstances, this is where a pilot comes in.
Just look at Tesla with their autopilot, it's good but still doesn't replace the driver. Even if they could automate the entire flight process, I wouldn't fly on a pilotless plane, would you?
Another problem for pilots is becoming too reliant on automation and loose your skills when you need them most.
The original Heli's didn't even have an electro mechanical tail gyros, now all of the advancements in drones is coming back to RC planes and heli's like 3 axis mems sensors which limit stick inputs on all axis, not just the tail and help to prevent the novice from tipping over.
Unfortunately the best automated systems can't replace piloting skills or anticipate all unforeseen circumstances, this is where a pilot comes in.
Just look at Tesla with their autopilot, it's good but still doesn't replace the driver. Even if they could automate the entire flight process, I wouldn't fly on a pilotless plane, would you?
Another problem for pilots is becoming too reliant on automation and loose your skills when you need them most.
I agree that automation should not take the place of pilot proficiency. However, the H is advertised as autonomous landing (well perhaps not advertised, but it is in the manual as such). It should take no skill to land it. A beginner "should" be able to trust in the manual and be able to land as the manual states. Honestly, I am not speaking for myself. I have flying Helis for over 15 years (I just took my Goblin 700 out yesterday for the first time in over a year...Wow! I forgot how much of a totally different beast that thing is!) I am well aware of the skill set needed to land. However, even I depended on the H to land as it should and it resulted in my two tip overs.
You are correct!
There is definitely issues with the way the H lands and its unpredictable and not consistent.
The problem was introduced in one of the later firmware upgrades and it
seems that Yuneec has moved on and has better things to do than bug fix the H's firmware.
What a couple of other users here keep saying it's user fault, no way, maybe one percent.
You should not have to go through a song and dance and cross your tows and hope the H lands correctly.
PatR
Premium Pilot
Then put it in RTH and let it land itself. It does this just fine. You won't get any better at landing but at least you'll see a reduction in your tip overs, and you'll have something else to blame if they don't go right. Your choice, practice and become a better operator or accept your limited ability as it is and rely on automation to save you. If and when the automation fails, so do you.
Your logic is flawed which proves my point.
The RTH has the same unpredictable hit and miss landings as does the manual landings.
You seem to be reluctant on admitting the H has a sensitivity problem when landing and always
want to blame the end user, what interest do you have in Yuneec?
If it isn't a pilot problem, then it must be an H problem with you're hardware. Have either of you, Jimmylee or Skeets, contacted Yuneec and said "Just give me an RMA, I want to send this in for testing."? By that, I mean both your H and ST16? I don't believe you can rule either one out as being the source of your issue with tipping, assuming it's not pilot related.
I've had mine for nearly a year and I've been running the latest firmware since it was published in March and have had no issues landing, ever, none. That would seem to imply the firmware and my hardware are working correctly and yours isn't. I also suspect this is a fairly isolated issue just like the compass and GPS issues which have been reported. Maybe you're accelerometer is bad or failing? Either way, I would work it out with Yuneec.
I've had mine for nearly a year and I've been running the latest firmware since it was published in March and have had no issues landing, ever, none. That would seem to imply the firmware and my hardware are working correctly and yours isn't. I also suspect this is a fairly isolated issue just like the compass and GPS issues which have been reported. Maybe you're accelerometer is bad or failing? Either way, I would work it out with Yuneec.
First off, tilt control, whether it be too much or not enough has nothing to do with my tip overs. The H was ALREADY on the ground when it decided to not go into idle (even with left stick all the way down) and increase motor speed just enough to tip it over. I would totally agree with you if I had been moving the right stick left/right, forward/back when it was in the process of landing, but that is not the case. No input of the right stick were made because it was not needed. The H was coming in level and vertical. How else can I say it before you at least try to see that it might not always be pilot error? If I can manually land a 700 size helicopter, where I have to have full control of it until it is no longer causing any lift, I can almost certain land a 4 or 6 propeller drone.
Nah. I've adapted by either hand catching or by slowing the rate of decent at about 10 feet up. That seems to have caused the motors to stop within a second or two upon landing. Besides, not all of my prior landings ended in a tip over which makes me think it might not be able to be duplicated. Also, there is nothing telling in the telemetry as to the cause.
Isn't the point of these threads that RTH'ing autonmously is what preceded the tip overs? My H RTH's just fine in that it climbs to the set altitude, flys back to above the ST-16, turns around, lowers the gear, and decends. It even lands fine. It's the tip over that happens AFTER it lands that is the problem.
Yes, and volvo automatic braking is supposed to stop the vehicle by itself, but guess what, sometimes things don't work as they are intended.
That being said the automatic land feature actually does work as described, however one must be aware things might go in unexpected ways. Blindly trusting a device "just because manual says" its a pretty neglective way of operating a piece of tech of dangerous nature; you might get yourself, or others, hurt real bad..
At the end of the day you are piloting a considerably sized UAV! If you want the aircraft to do everything by itself then what is the point getting behind the controller?
PatR
Premium Pilot
Not flawed, limited. I've used RTH twice in the span of 14 months to test it. It worked both times. For me that's a 100% success rate. But as I've demonstrated, I have the same success rate landing manually. An operative word might be competent.
PatR
Premium Pilot
And a Tesla auto pilot is not supposed to run into anything. There's a dead guy that might have wished that worked the way he hoped it would.
Sorry, but if people are incompetent they need to man up, admit it, and work a little harder at becoming better operators. Accept a little responsibility for a change.
The manual was released the same day the H was released. A lot has happened with firmware since then. I just try to adapt with the best methods I can with whatever methods I can find that work. If you have trouble with one method, try another. Most of the time I land "crosshanded". One hand on the left stick to descend and the other hand on Mr. Red. Just at touchdown I press and hold red. I do this because I know the motors may spin back up. Result: No tip. The other method which was just recently posted using red to descend and land, works perfectly. Why not just use it?
PatR
Premium Pilot
Skeets,
Of course it was already on the ground when it tipped over. The motors not going to idle is not the problem, the problem is you failed to provide the appropriate actions to prevent tipping. I don't usually wait for the motors to go to idle, I hold the stick back and press the button to kill them outright. Less time on the battery that way.
With the motors still spooled up the operator has to exercise care not to input inappropriate stick commands. If they rock the sticks off of center the H will try to respond. A far as the H is concerned it's still flying until those motors have gone to idle, which I clearly demonstrated in the video . Because people lack comprehension of their systems, or fail to understand their thumbs don't move a stick in a straight line, but in an arc unless they are cognizant and offset that arc, or fail to maintain neutral stick after landing, it's not the H's fault when they tell the **** thing to pitch, roll, or yaw once the feet hit the ground. Drift? That's B.S. because the operator can see drift and apply control input to counter it or abort the landing to try again. The left stick commands yaw, and any yaw on the ground will cause the H to twist. If it can't rotate because of resistance between the ground and the gear, it tips. Barring external control input the H will not tip with the motors in either the armed and ready or idle states.
Let's do a little experiment together. Remove the camera and place the H out in the open on a flat surface and power everything up. Let's try for a low to no wind condition. By low I mean less than 3mph. Place the mode switch in Angle and turn off OA. FYI, I have never used OA and don't have a clue if it might have some impact on T/O and landing but it's not supposed to function below a certain distance above the ground. Arm the motors and let it sit there for a moment while you check GPS and battery levels again. Without putting you fingers on the right stick, advance the throttle without any sideways pressure on the stick. The H will rise straight up. It won't tip. It may drift a little with the wind but it won't tip.
One thing I'll chime in here...... is all of my drone(and Heli) controllers except the ST16 have no return to center springs on the throttle (just a ratchet stop) so when I land and put the stick in the down position it does not try to go back to center and spool back up.... so the copter/drone stays down. Could this be part of the issue where it thinks its down but when the stick comes up a little or returns to center it starts to spool back up? Goes light on the skids and tries to flip? Don't know have not had enough time on my H yet to try this out and getting used to the RTC throttle stick. I manually takeoff and land on all my units as the ground effect varies depending on the surface your landing on (grass .vs. concrete). Don't trust the RTL systems....never will.
Similar threads
