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What Firmware build was installed when your H Plus fell out of the Sky?

Thanks @Ty Pilot for clearing that up and weeding out a loose battery. Also as @PatR pointed out cold solder joints could easily be an issue as well. And it s a big deal @daylight99 when more than one has had this happen, especially several in a relatively short period of time, especially two in the same day, and it's an especially big deal when it's your Plus. I appears that a pattern is developing and Yuneec isn't talking, and we are in the dark. Anytime an aircraft falls out of the sky is a big deal. Those who have had this happen already are lucky that only the aircraft was damaged and it didn't hurt someone or someone's personal property. All this enters my mind every time I lift off with any sUAV and I fly accordingly. However I should have confidence my Plus will stay airborne, and I don't because that confidence is eroding with every Plus crash that goes unexplained. Confidence is completely different than blind trust, and I am rapidly loosing confidence in my Plus.

Also, those Plus owners who bought new have less to worry about than those of us who bought used with no apparent warranty. Will Yuneec replace mine when it falls from the sky??
 
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Also, those Plus owners who bought new have less to worry about than those of us who bought used with no apparent warranty. Will Yuneec replace mine when it falls from the sky??
Will Yuneec take responsibility if its H PLUS falls on property or people?
I would say, they are obliged if you have original material, not modified / disassembled, working with all the criteria stipulated in the manual.
This is the case of my drones, always on top, always tested in non-populated areas with each change of firmware.
The aeronautical procedures that I had to face allowed me to have a certain rigor.
here
The first ones who will leave you will be the insurances, then the builder, to you to prepare your defense before the incident arrives.
Well, these remarks are mainly about professionals, amateurs have the right to tinker
 
Thanks @Ty Pilot for clearing that up and weeding out a loose battery. Also as @PatR pointed out cold solder joints could easily be an issue as well. And it s a big deal @daylight99 when more than one has had this happen, especially several in a relatively short period of time, especially two in the same day, and it's an especially big deal when it's your Plus. I appears that a pattern is developing and Yuneec isn't talking, and we are in the dark. Anytime an aircraft falls out of the sky is a big deal. Those who have had this happen already are lucky that only the aircraft was damaged and it didn't hurt someone or someone's personal property. All this enters my mind every time I lift off with any sUAV and I fly accordingly. However I should have confidence my Plus will stay airborne, and I don't because that confidence is eroding with every Plus crash that goes unexplained. Confidence is completely different than blind trust, and I am rapidly loosing confidence in my Plus.

Also, those Plus owners who bought new have less to worry about than those of us who bought used with no apparent warranty. Will Yuneec replace mine when it falls from the sky??


Excellent point. A small number of crashes involving competent, experienced and even a commercially certified user is enough to put doubt into the rest of us. I have often said, 'if my Plus goes in, my Plus goes in' However, if where it goes in is; at a job over someones's expensive car or worse, over them - then Houston we have a problem. It took months of flying before I gained enough faith to take my Plus to work and just two or three insignificant crashes by someone I have never met to erase that faith. :confused:
 
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I hope that the reason for failure in each of these cases is quickly identified. And to be sure, they could very well be different reasons. I will say to those that are relatively new to flying that this is not exclusive to Yuneec. Every manufacturer has and continues to experience sudden failures in the power system:

For Instance..
 
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I hope that the reason for failure in each of these cases is quickly identified. And to be sure, they could very well be different reasons. I will say to those that are relatively new to flying that this is not exclusive to Yuneec. Every manufacturer has and continues to experience sudden failures in the power system:

For Instance..

This is what I dislike about the Yuneec culture, instead of identifying the problem head on, specially from a “beta tester” for future R&D reference towards (if ever there’s) a new product, it passes the buck.

That latch mechanism is JUNK! During my first day out with the THP I did not know about the two clicks, until I noticed the battery somewhat not secured in place.

Don’t let me pull the DJI card, because mine has been doing its jobs for years. Let’s talk about Yuneec, so maybe the future SUPER Plus will surpass the current in terms of being the next best thing.
 
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This is what I dislike about the Yuneec culture, instead of identifying the problem head on, specially from a “beta tester” for future R&D reference towards (if ever there’s) a new product, it passes the buck.

That latch mechanism is JUNK! During my first day out with the THP I did not know about the two clicks, until I noticed the battery somewhat not secured in place.

Don’t let me pull the DJI card, because mine has been doing its jobs for years. Let’s talk about Yuneec, so maybe the future SUPER Plus will surpass the current in terms of being the next best thing.

I believe I started with "I hope that the reason for failure in each of these cases is quickly identified." As no buck was passed.
Go ahead and pull the 'DJI Card'. We certainly know that they have never denied issues. ;). I certainly do not know why these birds lost power, as I have not experienced it myself.Neither my + or 520 has even scratched a prop. But that doesn't mean others have not had serious issues. I know of about 8 Yuneec 'lost power' cases and there may be more, that's just what I have read about, but I don't believe they were all the same issue and some were battery issue. Any time any drone falls from the sky, I would hope for a quick identify and fix from any manufacturer.

Culture? How would someone who tests by flying 'identify' any issue not observed? Using your logic, and since you claim to fly more than anyone, and in the 'most demanding' environments. I would think you would be in the best position to 'identify the problem head on'.
 
Excellent point. A small number of crashes involving competent, experienced and even a commercially certified user is enough to put doubt into the rest of us.

The issue is we have no idea of the size of the dataset and hence no reliable means to accurately assess the failure rate. Internet forums tend to focus on problems and dismiss/ignore non-issues. So they tend to magnify events.
 
I totally agree, except that it's up to Yuneec and his engineers to do the job!
I have done a lot of research and development for my life, and I think I know how to proceed to find an anomaly in a concept. But, we speak in front of a cave, without echo ...
I want to participate in improving the product, because I like its design, but disassemble my H PLUS to equip the sensor, I wait for retirement! LOL
But I really appreciate the people who try to understand, finally all of you :)
The hardware could be as simple as a little Current Transformer (coil of wire over the RED battery wire to the main board perhaps) which talks to the CPU.
Hmmm
 
The issue is we have no idea of the size of the dataset and hence no reliable means to accurately assess the failure rate. Internet forums tend to focus on problems and dismiss/ignore non-issues. So they tend to magnify events.

Very true, but do you want to be the 1 in a thousand, hundred thousand, million?

These are aircraft and zero defects should be the goal of manufacturing. QC in the manufacturing process and also your suppliers should be a top priority.

We have seen similar power failures on the H Plus and H520 (same Hardware) and working in circuit manufacturing for 20 years there are many ways to ensure that your product achieves near zero defect reliability. Vision systems, circuit functional testing, environmental testing, and so on. The processes today are even better than what they were when I retired ten years ago.
 
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Very true, but do you want to be the 1 in a thousand, hundred thousand, million?

Not my point. My point is that it is not possible to get an accurate understanding of the actual risk of this occurring. But that does not mean it is not worth trying to understand what happened to those on this forum that had the failure.

These are aircraft and zero defects should be the goal of manufacturing. QC in the manufacturing process and also your suppliers should be a top priority.

These are toys as far as the market goes. And even if the goal was zero defects that is a goal few, if any, manufacturers have achieved. And the levels of QA/QC that would be needed to approach that with something like a consumer drone would make it too expensive for the market.
 
Based on some of the previous posts that have entered the realm of the "blame game" I'm going to take a slightly different path with this post.

Anyone that fails to learn how the battery is supposed to be installed and secured in a Typhoon H, H Plus, or 520 that experiences a battery separation because it was not fully inserted has only themselves to blame. They were informed in the system instructions and latch information has been extensively described in this and other forums referencing the products.

The latch design functions perfectly when the battery is fully inserted, it cannot self unlock, and will usually remain locked in place even when the aircraft is crashed. Failure to adequately preflight the aircraft to assure the battery is locked in place is operator error. It's not a design deficiency as the design functions perfectly and is simple to use. Failure to understand how the battery should be installed is operator error, plain and simple and people should not try to blame a manufacturer for their personal failures. Having a battery separate in flight is operator error. There's nothing wrong with the battery latch design but there is obviously something wrong with the way many operators have addressed preflight inspections, flight safety, and their comprehension of system components for which they are totally responsible for using. The battery is supposed to separate when the latch is released so blaming an improperly installed battery for separating in flight is like blaming a compass for pointing north.

Any aircraft owner that modifies their system in any way assumes full responsibility for any later failures. If they are not qualified engineers in the fields of electrical, software, firmware, mechanical, avionics design, and RF certification they lack the ability to accurately predict the outcome of their modifications. Lacking system schematics, design specifications for the command and control system, electronic speed controls, GPS system design, and other functions any modifications they elect to make are being performed on a "best guess" basis. Unless extensive, comprehensive testing on altered systems is performed, comparing previous performance against current performance, those making modifications are at best hoping for an improvement and have nothing to provide a sound basis for initiating a modification or for assuring their modifications do not negatively impact other critical portions of the flight system.

Anyone that elects to use their system in a manner that exceeds a manufacturer's published limitations becomes a test pilot. Any issues experienced with the C2 and video links is on their back, not the manufacturer's. A manufacturer makes a clear statement when they publish range limitations and those exceeding those limitations do so of their own volition. They are choosing to exceed manufacturer limitations, nobody and nothing forces them to.

Our FAA does not have any certification standards for "consumer drones" There are no regulations referencing how they should be made, how they should work, or how they are flown. Current regulations are mostly applicable to where and when they can be flown. Our FAA DOES make commercial operators responsible to assure drones are safe for flight so if anything happens during a flight that causes a crash or incident the responsibility for that failure falls on the operator. From that point forward the operator will be responsible for post crash/incident analysis to determine if the event was operator or system failure. Not the owner as the owner and the operator can be different people. It falls on the operator.

To my knowledge, no manufacturer of consumer drones has presented any part of their systems to the ASME for certification testing. Making that a little worse is all of them make it a point to limit what can be reviewed in their flight controller coding. No consumer drone manufacturer provides any level of flight test data that would enable a review of their test practices. That means that no consumer drone manufacturer has made any attempts to obtain FAA certification. As the FAA has yet to develop certification standards (that will soon change as aerospace drone manufacturers have been submitting designs for certification) consumer drone manufacturers are still free to use any components and manufacturing processes they want to with absolutely no assurance to the consumer they will function as advertised or assuring the life cycle in which their systems should remain safe and reliable. We need to get it through our thick skulls there is nothing in place establishing measurable, repeatable QA standards.

It should be mentioned that since 2013 many hundreds of one brand of consumer drones experienced fly away's, power failures, loss of control, GPS /compass failures, camera/gimbal issues, and flight controller failures. A great many of those that experienced these failures never obtained any satisfaction from the maker, yet people continued to buy them in enough numbers to give that brand over 70% of the market share. Yuneec has experienced similar issues but either due to lack of sales volume or because of better QA methods, not anywhere close to the quantity the other maker has. It should be noted that Yuneec established and maintained a much better record of replacing lost models than the other brand over their entire period of drone manufacturing. EVERY consumer drone manufacturer has had and will continue to have their share of system failures and this condition cannot and will not change until design and certification standards are imposed on the industry. If you think drone are expensive now the current costs do not begin to approach what they will be once certification becomes mandatory. That cost will increase tenfold or more.

For now, regardless of brand or model, the best we can do is to become as knowledgeable as possible about the products we buy BEFORE we put them into the air. Understand how they work, how they should be assembled and operated, and KNOW how a battery is designed to be installed and maintained before we use them to minimize operator/maintenance errors that are certain to cause a crash. Develop and use a pre and post flight inspection process. If a pre or post flight inspection is interrupted for any reason, start over and run it start to finish before take off or putting the aircraft away for the day. If you don't have time to perform a preflight and post take off inspection you and your system are not safe for or ready to fly. Use a post take off performance check list to assure all flight functions are correct before proceeding with the rest of the flight. Checklists have been part of aviation for a couple generations to help prevent accidents. There's no reason we should not be using them too.
 
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The hardware could be as simple as a little Current Transformer (coil of wire over the RED battery wire to the main board perhaps) which talks to the CPU.
If it were AC yes, but we are dealing with DC here so an inductive pickup would not work.
 
Any aircraft owner that modifies their system in any way assumes full responsibility for any later failures. If they are not qualified engineers in the fields of electrical, software, firmware, mechanical, avionics design, and RF certification they lack the ability to accurately predict the outcome of their modifications. Lacking system schematics, design specifications for the command and control system, electronic speed controls, GPS system design, and other functions any modifications they elect to make are being performed on a "best guess" basis. Unless extensive, comprehensive testing on altered systems is performed, comparing previous performance against current performance, those making modifications are at best hoping for an improvement and have nothing to provide a sound basis for initiating a modification or for assuring their modifications do not negatively impact other critical portions of the flight system.

Anyone that elects to use their system in a manner that exceeds a manufacturer's published limitations becomes a test pilot. Any issues experienced with the C2 and video links is on their back, not the manufacturer's. A manufacturer makes a clear statement when they publish range limitations and those exceeding those limitations do so of their own volition. They are choosing to exceed manufacturer limitations, nobody and nothing forces them to.

This needs to be a sticky in large red letters.
 
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This needs to be a sticky in large red letters.

I should have added qualified technicians to the list. In any case, I’ve grown weary reading of performance failures introduced by people modifying their systems that have little or no understanding of what they are doing. I have no sympathy for people that make changes thinking (without foundation) they can improve something when exactly the opposite is the obtained result while the owner proceeds to complain about performance deficiencies after making their modifications.
 
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Based on some of the previous posts that have entered the realm of the "blame game" I'm going to take a slightly different path with this post.

Anyone that fails to learn how the battery is supposed to be installed and secured in a Typhoon H, H Plus, or 520 that experiences a battery separation because it was not fully inserted has only themselves to blame. They were informed in the system instructions and latch information has been extensively described in this and other forums referencing the products.

The latch design functions perfectly when the battery is fully inserted, it cannot self unlock, and will usually remain locked in place even when the aircraft is crashed. Failure to adequately preflight the aircraft to assure the battery is locked in place is operator error. It's not a design deficiency as the design functions perfectly and is simple to use. Failure to understand how the battery should be installed is operator error, plain and simple and people should not try to blame a manufacturer for their personal failures. Having a battery separate in flight is operator error. There's nothing wrong with the battery latch design but there is obviously something wrong with the way many operators have addressed preflight inspections, flight safety, and their comprehension of system components for which they are totally responsible for using. The battery is supposed to separate when the latch is released so blaming an improperly installed battery for separating in flight is like blaming a compass for pointing north.

Any aircraft owner that modifies their system in any way assumes full responsibility for any later failures. If they are not qualified engineers in the fields of electrical, software, firmware, mechanical, avionics design, and RF certification they lack the ability to accurately predict the outcome of their modifications. Lacking system schematics, design specifications for the command and control system, electronic speed controls, GPS system design, and other functions any modifications they elect to make are being performed on a "best guess" basis. Unless extensive, comprehensive testing on altered systems is performed, comparing previous performance against current performance, those making modifications are at best hoping for an improvement and have nothing to provide a sound basis for initiating a modification or for assuring their modifications do not negatively impact other critical portions of the flight system.

Anyone that elects to use their system in a manner that exceeds a manufacturer's published limitations becomes a test pilot. Any issues experienced with the C2 and video links is on their back, not the manufacturer's. A manufacturer makes a clear statement when they publish range limitations and those exceeding those limitations do so of their own volition. They are choosing to exceed manufacturer limitations, nobody and nothing forces them to.

Our FAA does not have any certification standards for "consumer drones" There are no regulations referencing how they should be made, how they should work, or how they are flown. Current regulations are mostly applicable to where and when they can be flown. Our FAA DOES make commercial operators responsible to assure drones are safe for flight so if anything happens during a flight that causes a crash or incident the responsibility for that failure falls on the operator. From that point forward the operator will be responsible for post crash/incident analysis to determine if the event was operator or system failure. Not the owner as the owner and the operator can be different people. It falls on the operator.

To my knowledge, no manufacturer of consumer drones has presented any part of their systems to the ASME for certification testing. Making that a little worse is all of them make it a point to limit what can be reviewed in their flight controller coding. No consumer drone manufacturer provides any level of flight test data that would enable a review of their test practices. That means that no consumer drone manufacturer has made any attempts to obtain FAA certification. As the FAA has yet to develop certification standards (that will soon change as aerospace drone manufacturers have been submitting designs for certification) consumer drone manufacturers are still free to use any components and manufacturing processes they want to with absolutely no assurance to the consumer they will function as advertised or assuring the life cycle in which their systems should remain safe and reliable. We need to get it through our thick skulls there is nothing in place establishing measurable, repeatable QA standards.

It should be mentioned that since 2013 many hundreds of one brand of consumer drones experienced fly away's, power failures, loss of control, GPS /compass failures, camera/gimbal issues, and flight controller failures. A great many of those that experienced these failures never obtained any satisfaction from the maker, yet people continued to buy them in enough numbers to give that brand over 70% of the market share. Yuneec has experienced similar issues but either due to lack of sales volume or because of better QA methods, not anywhere close to the quantity the other maker has. It should be noted that Yuneec established and maintained a much better record of replacing lost models than the other brand over their entire period of drone manufacturing. EVERY consumer drone manufacturer has had and will continue to have their share of system failures and this condition cannot and will not change until design and certification standards are imposed on the industry. If you think drone are expensive now the current costs do not begin to approach what they will be once certification becomes mandatory. That cost will increase tenfold or more.

For now, regardless of brand or model, the best we can do is to become as knowledgeable as possible about the products we buy BEFORE we put them into the air. Understand how they work, how they should be assembled and operated, and KNOW how a battery is designed to be installed and maintained before we use them to minimize operator/maintenance errors that are certain to cause a crash. Develop and use a pre and post flight inspection process. If a pre or post flight inspection is interrupted for any reason, start over and run it start to finish before take off or putting the aircraft away for the day. If you don't have time to perform a preflight and post take off inspection you and your system are not safe for or ready to fly. Use a post take off performance check list to assure all flight functions are correct before proceeding with the rest of the flight. Checklists have been part of aviation for a couple generations to help prevent accidents. There's no reason we should not be using them too.
I must agree with your extensive writing and view. Almost like a FAA report for aviation accidents all over the world and still continue to this day. As it has been said "To Fly is Heavenly, But inherently Dangerous and terribly Unforgiving" Well Put, Old Chap! LOL
 

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