H flipping over

[FlushVision]

Prop guards.Nuff said !

Depends how you look at it. Whilst it is true to say that prop guards will give a greater chance of saving your blades in the event of a flip over, probably make a collision with a person less painful, etc, there is another side to it.

For example, while the event was ultimately my fault, my first crash using a Phantom 2 Vision fitted with prop-guards (only my fourth flight) was caused as a direct result of having those prop guards fitted. Since then I have only ever used prop guards once and that was on a Phantom 2 Vision Plus while using it during my evaluation flight to gain the CAA PfCO. Incidentally, I do have to admit that at the end of that flight the Phantom tipped over upon landing and no props were broken.

My experience using prop guards, then, has been mixed. While on one occasion they caused a crash (although I do take responsibility for it), on other occasions they have prevented prop damage.

At the end of the day, you weigh up the advantages against the disadvantages and take your choice.

 

[CraigCam]

I think prop guards make sense in any close quarter flying. I'd think they'd almost be mandatory for any interior work where there are no safe fly out routes. I've been following this thread since the initial post and I thought tip overs where more part of altitude sensing. My 350 had a barometric calibration that was factory set but could be redone by user if needed. The motors on the TH should go to idle once it touches done and I suspect a bad IMU is the culprit.

 

[Murray Martz]

I think prop guards make sense in any close quarter flying. I'd think they'd almost be mandatory for any interior work where there are no safe fly out routes. I've been following this thread since the initial post and I thought tip overs where more part of altitude sensing. My 350 had a barometric calibration that was factory set but could be redone by user if needed. The motors on the TH should go to idle once it touches done and I suspect a bad IMU is the culprit.

I was heading out for a test yesterday with some new firmware changes to see if it would help, but I forgot the batteries. FAK! Anyhow I am off in a half hour with the batteries this time. I'll be posting once I am back with results.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

This is mostly a rant.

I can now say with 100% certainty, that what is the cause of the Typhoon H to flip over, or roll over to one side while landing, is caused by the last firmware update. I know of all the things that have been posted on here about it. I have read it all, and been involved in some of the discussions, as well as the possible remedies people have put out there. After today though, it is the firmware.

A friend of mine liked the drone I have after hearing me rave about it. After seeing the footage and the way it flew, he bought one as they were on sale. So we went out today to do some flying as I have 3 new batteries I wanted to test out. I made 12 short flights that were good with no issues, and his were also fine. But here is the difference, he has the previous firmware, and mine has the current.

Every landing I did, no matter how many different ways I tried to land ( 12 ), they all resulted in the drone flipping to one side and busting a prop each time, thank goodness for the spare blades I no longer have. But when we landed the drone he has, the H set down like a gentle feather.

I remember when I first got my H, it had the old firmware. I could land it like I was landing on feathers, you could bring it down ever so slowly, inching it till touch down. New firmware.....KAPOW! We kept landing and taking off with his without a hitch, mine.....KAPOW!

So people can say and believe what they want, it is the firmware that is doing it, perhaps it is not as aggressive on every H, but with mine it is very aggressive. An Actual landing is now out of the case, going to have to learn to catch it.

BTW....yes, everything was calibrated before flying, and between flights. Nothing is or was messed up in the ST16. Wind conditions were minimal, and temp outside was good.

Time to get on the phone and open a discussion with Yuneec I'm thinking.

Just my two Canadian cents.
Murray

Hi Murray,

Replying just to add to the list of pilots who have differing experiences.

My one and only flip over was on the February (2017) firmware. The only reason it flipped was because I was not yet aware of the situation (oscillating flight characters at low level) and tried to land before I had re-established positive horizontal control. (The above has been posted, as you allude to, so not regurgitating here.)

Since then, I have been able regain full flight control before landing. On the couple occasions when I sensed the motors not idling down, I was able to lift off quickly, and try again. Successfully, I might add.

My second H has the latest firmware (March, 2017) and has not shown signs of oscillating flight, let alone a desire to tip over. Only once do I recall the motors not idling down in the expecting time after touchdown and full down throttle.

Therefore, as stated, I put my experiences in the "Not" latest firmware related category.

Jeff

 

[Twisterdink]

The last two flights my H has landed, didn't seem to idle down in a timely manner even tho I was still holding the control lever down, and then after a couple seconds just nosed over, boom, fortunately on dense grass so I didn't lose any props. But I haven't updated the software for the H or ST-16, only had it a couple months tops. It was windy both landings, but I have been taking off and landing nose into the wind any time it's at all breezy, with no issues. Plus the H didn't tip the direction the wind was blowing. So I was baffled as to why the tip overs happened. Someone earlier suggested setting down with one landing strut perpendicular to the wind and the H would be less likely to blow over. In my head that makes perfect sense, but it's also diametrically opposed to the "nose to wind" strategy. I'm curious what other pilots have found works best for windy takeoff or landing. And I still don't know why it nosed over after landing.

 

[JulesTEO]

These type of experiences just make me feel that I should still refrain from updating firmware. I'm still running the firmare released on Sept 1 2016, it performs flawlessly, and that's the way I like it. (although the new functions are very tempting)

Anyway, after an interesting test a while ago (landing on a slope), I can only advise this: If you notice anything weird going on during landing (for example when you notice it starts tipping over). Abort landing immediately, push the throttle back up.

Its better to try to regain control on the air than insisting on landing just to witness when the H decides to perform a cartwheel for your amusement.

 

[Murray Martz]

These type of experiences just make me feel that I should still refrain from updating firmware. I'm still running the firmare released on Sept 1 2016, it performs flawlessly, and that's the way I like it. (although the new functions are very tempting)

Anyway, after an interesting test a while ago (landing on a slope), I can only advise this: If you notice anything weird going on during landing (for example when you notice it starts tipping over). Abort landing immediately, push the throttle back up.

Its better to try to regain control on the air than insisting on landing just to witness when the H decides to perform a cartwheel for your amusement.

And you know, if it works fine the way it is and a person likes it, no need to update I always feel.

 

[PatR]

Totally agree. I often wonder why some are in such a rush to update firmware. If it does what you want it to do, don't need any more, and you don't encounter issues, why do an update? Unless there are known problems with a firmware version there's no reason aside from obtaining new functionality to jump into another firmware version. They don't expire or go sour.

 

[Dr Delta]

I fly the latest firmware and had my first tip over last weekend. I was landing the H in reasonably tall grass, it just covered the camera lens when tilted horizontally.
The motors did not seem to want to idle with stick full down and before pressing the kill switch reacted H was on her side.
No harm done, just wiped off some freshly cut grass and directly flew again.
Landed in same tall grass in 'automatic' mode (home switch and adjusting by sticks) and that went fine.

Cheers

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Anyway, after an interesting test a while ago (landing on a slope), I can only advise this: If you notice anything weird going on during landing (for example when you notice it starts tipping over). Abort landing immediately, push the throttle back up.

Its better to try to regain control on the air than insisting on landing just to witness when the H decides to perform a cartwheel for your amusement.

Absolutely agree... the only recent times I have had a tip over is with it hesitating to idle, hoping the beast would behave normally
and calm the F down. If it doesn't idle down within 2-3 seconds of touchdown, don't give it time to flip... just as full scale pilots do, be prepared to do a touch and go.

 

[John Dube]

Today, I had just the opposite problem. I started the motors and before giving any throttle, the H started bouncing and trying to flip over. I kept the throttle down and kept hitting the Off switch. Fortunately it shut down before anything happened. I turned it off and back on, then restarted it. Took off and flew two batteries with no problem. Anyone have an idea why it acted this way?

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

The first time I've heard of that behavior on startup... have only seen posts (and my own experience)
about landing issues and tipping over.

I did have an issue once with the main red power button being unresponsive and not firing up the bird
(and since it was a location that I'd flown before, I knew it was not a NFZ issue). Ended up solving it
by simply creating a new H model on the ST-16 list and doing a complete rebind... you might try that
if it re-occurs.

 

[John Dube]

The first time I've heard of that behavior on startup... have only seen posts (and my own experience)
about landing issues and tipping over.

I did have an issue once with the main red power button being unresponsive and not firing up the bird
(and since it was a location that I'd flown before, I knew it was not a NFZ issue). Ended up solving it
by simply creating a new H model on the ST-16 list and doing a complete rebind... you might try that
if it re-occurs.

Thanks for your input. Will have to call Yuneec to see what they say.

 

[Murray Martz]

If only one or two people out of hundreds have problems after a firmware update, just how likely is it the firmware was the source of the problem?

If everyone installs it on the same machine, in the same way, and a few hundred people, or even 20 people have an issue, it's still related. Updates can always be buggy, so it can happen. Just because it does not happen to all of them does not mean the issue does not exist or is not related. As I have tested it with two drones, one with, and one without the new firmware, the conclusion stands.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

If everyone installs it on the same machine, in the same way, and a few hundred people, or even 20 people have an issue, it's still related. Updates can always be buggy, so it can happen. Just because it does not happen to all of them does not mean the issue does not exist or is not related. As I have tested it with two drones, one with, and one without the new firmware, the conclusion stands.

Not to start or perpetuate a disagreement, but I already stated I had the exact opposite experience.

One H on old (Feb. 2017) firmware flipped. One H on new (March, 2017) firmware has not.

With this opposing data, how can one definitively prove new firmware versus old as the sole cause?

The only way I see to test your theory is to put old firmware in your bird that flipped, and new firmware in the bird that has not flipped. If the bird with the new firmware flips, then you may have a case. If the bird now with old firmware flips, it is NOT pointing to firmware, but rather the hull itself. If they both flip or they both do not flip... well...

What is left unsaid until now is this whole speculation does not definitively rule out other mitigating factors at play.

Jeff

 

[Murray Martz]

Not to start or perpetuate a disagreement, but I already stated I had the exact opposite experience.

One H on old (Feb. 2017) firmware flipped. One H on new (March, 2017) firmware has not.

With this opposing data, how can one definitively prove new firmware versus old as the sole cause?

The only way I see to test your theory is to put old firmware in your bird that flipped, and new firmware in the bird that has not flipped. If the bird with the new firmware flips, then you may have a case. If the bird now with old firmware flips, it is NOT pointing to firmware, but rather the hull itself. If they both flip or they both do not flip... well...

What is left unsaid until now is this whole speculation does not definitively rule out other mitigating factors at play.

Jeff

Your arguments are frustrating as they are very valid, well done sir. On a plus side, the solution may actually be something that has been over-looked by a lot of people, especially myself, as it is going to be very obvious. And if it turns out to be true, then it is going to solve this once and for all. I'm going to test it on the Sim first, then outside. Hopefully I am going to be correct with the answer, and very embarrassed at the same time.

 

[FlushVision]

Totally agree. I often wonder why some are in such a rush to update firmware. If it does what you want it to do, don't need any more, and you don't encounter issues, why do an update? Unless there are known problems with a firmware version there's no reason aside from obtaining new functionality to jump into another firmware version. They don't expire or go sour.

I agree too.
Since I received my H at the start of June last year I've only updated once in February using the November 2016 release...so several months after it became available. I only updated then because I had begun to experience abnormally long times for the camera to connect after booting up...if not for that I wouldn't have updated then because in all other respects the aircraft was performing satisfactorily.

 

[Murray Martz]

Time to eat some crow.

As you all know, I was very sure....100% sure in fact that it was firmware. Today, I can now say it is most likely user error as it is in my case. The Typhoon H has 4 modes for the controller joystick setup. I was in mode 2 from the day I got it. Then, right after the update, I changed it to mode 4 so I could basically steer it with the right joystick.

I found it odd that all of the people that had the same problem, also seemed to have it tip to the right as well. It wasn't until I read a post about adjusting the sensitivity of the sticks that it dawned on me what was wrong.

What happens in mode 4 is this.

When you are about to land, you are using your left thumb to lower the H. The sticks are so sensitive that when you have the left stick all the way to the bottom, it is very easy to be causing a slight right push on the stick without even noticing you are doing it. This will cause the H to list to the right and want to tip.

If you use another mode like 4, make sure you practice a lot with it. Be careful when landing to keep the stick centered at the bottom. A slight push to the right can cause a lot of damage.

And finally I want to say I'm sorry for being so stubborn about this, but I have some Scottish ancestry in me, and being stubborn is part of it. So with that I'm sss.....ssssss...fak.....I'm sorry. There, I freaking said it!

 

[Rayray]

When you are about to land, you are using your left thumb to lower the H. The sticks are so sensitive that when you have the left stick all the way to the bottom, it is very easy to be causing a slight right push on the stick without even noticing you are doing it. This will cause the H to list to the right and want to tip.

Indeed. I have noticed this, and even tested it a couple weeks ago to verify. The internal gyros are quick to grab control in such a case, a good/bad thing depending on the situation. I wish all Ths had bottom IPS sensors and were programmed to deactivate automatic takeover close to the ground.

Thank you for informing us. No human is exempt from jumping to erroneous conclusions.

 

[Evil Penguin]

Today I landed my H Pro by killing the motors mid flight a few inches from the ground.
Turned out better than I thought it would (smooth landing).
The only strange thing I noticed was the motors appeared to be locked up and making noises after it landed.
I cycled the power and it was okay again.