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I have flipped my H on landing 3 times now. ENOUGH!
- Thread starter Texy
- Start date
I had my H flipped once because it drifted during landing.
As soon as it touches the ground while drifting it is not horizontal anymore and the motors (well... the autopilot) try to compensate. At that moment the throttle full down did not idle the motors and the red button did not work (fast enough) so it flipped.
Did calibrate compass (I always point the nose in north direction) powered down and rebooted, calibrated accellerometer (static, so on horizontal flat and solid surface) powered down and rebooted..... After a good wait for GPS (12 minutes) it never flipped again (newest EU firmware).
As soon as it touches the ground while drifting it is not horizontal anymore and the motors (well... the autopilot) try to compensate. At that moment the throttle full down did not idle the motors and the red button did not work (fast enough) so it flipped.
Did calibrate compass (I always point the nose in north direction) powered down and rebooted, calibrated accellerometer (static, so on horizontal flat and solid surface) powered down and rebooted..... After a good wait for GPS (12 minutes) it never flipped again (newest EU firmware).
PatR
Premium Pilot
The H does not have wheels so it cannot roll to a stop unless it tips over. Landings are done in the vertical plane, not the horizontal. This sounds more like an operator issue, not aircraft.
It's hard to diagnose without knowing what you're doing. Are you in Smart Mode, Angle Mode, RTH? How close are you to the drone? What is your landing procedure?
In general you should:
Make sure you're landing in flat, open space
Bring the Typhoon down steadily and vertically until it is on the ground - don't leave it sitting above the ground where drift and height adjustments can cause trouble.
Hold the throttle down, keeping it central
Listen for the change in motor pitch
*Keep the throttle held down and central*
Press and hold the red disarm button until the motors stop
Only then: release the throttle and approach the Typhoon.
Quite a few operators start walking towards their machine as it lands or once it's on the ground. Don't - in smart mode it may try to fly away from you and in any mode you're distracting yourself by moving. That can cause unintended joystick input.
If your Typhoon is not responding smoothly to joystick input at any time *stop flying it*. It should not behave that way, and until you've identified the cause, you're an accident waiting to happen. Check in the Hardware Monitor screen that all inputs give smooth response, going from -100 to +100 with no jerks, flats or sticky bits. Then check using the Windows GUI that the compass, altimeter and accelerometer are all reading normally. Check your telemetry for compass errors - it's normal to have a few brief errors now and then, but regular persistent errors point to a problem. Finally check your GPS - the telemetry will tell you the accuracy it's getting, and in particular you should look to see if where you're landing has the GPS signal obstructed. Obviously, don't land near cars or electrical equipment as this can cause problems.
In general you should:
Make sure you're landing in flat, open space
Bring the Typhoon down steadily and vertically until it is on the ground - don't leave it sitting above the ground where drift and height adjustments can cause trouble.
Hold the throttle down, keeping it central
Listen for the change in motor pitch
*Keep the throttle held down and central*
Press and hold the red disarm button until the motors stop
Only then: release the throttle and approach the Typhoon.
Quite a few operators start walking towards their machine as it lands or once it's on the ground. Don't - in smart mode it may try to fly away from you and in any mode you're distracting yourself by moving. That can cause unintended joystick input.
If your Typhoon is not responding smoothly to joystick input at any time *stop flying it*. It should not behave that way, and until you've identified the cause, you're an accident waiting to happen. Check in the Hardware Monitor screen that all inputs give smooth response, going from -100 to +100 with no jerks, flats or sticky bits. Then check using the Windows GUI that the compass, altimeter and accelerometer are all reading normally. Check your telemetry for compass errors - it's normal to have a few brief errors now and then, but regular persistent errors point to a problem. Finally check your GPS - the telemetry will tell you the accuracy it's getting, and in particular you should look to see if where you're landing has the GPS signal obstructed. Obviously, don't land near cars or electrical equipment as this can cause problems.
It happened to me two times when I first got mine about a month and a half. Calm winds, flat pavement. It was on the ground already and the kinda fluttered and sped up a little as if it didn't know it had already landed and tipped over. I have hand caught since. Here's how I do it: Bring it down at a level where you can firmly grasp the vertical part of one of the landing gear, but so the props are higher than your head. Hold the ST-16 by the handle in one hand so that you can reach the start/stop button with your thumb. Grab the landing gear with the other hand, but don't move the H. Then hold the red button until the motors turn off.
I respectfully disagree. It happened to me twice when I first got mine and I am almost 100*/ positive I did not do anything wrong. Calm winds, flat pavement. (If you read my other post about blaming the H vs. accepting responsibility, you will see that I have no issue with not passing off blame if it was my fault) The H was already on the ground with me pushing the red button and the motors momentarily fluttered and sped up causing the tip overs. I have since hand caught usually without incident, but yesterday I went to hand catch and as usual, had the landing gear grasped and pushing the button down, the motors started to do the same thing and It took an extra second or two of me holding the button down with the motors doing the same thing before finally shutting off.
[QUOTE="PatR, post: 96957, member: 1911" Landings are done in the vertical plane, not the horizontal. This sounds more like an operator issue, not aircraft.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
Yep.
One thing I am wondering is when people are "releasing" the throttle are they just letting go or are they easing it back to center? I have noticed if you let go the throttle stick springs up and could move past center and cause the H to power up a little again. As skeet said " The H was already on the ground with me pushing the red button and the motors momentarily fluttered and sped up causing the tip overs"
I have only had 1 tip and that was the first landing in tall grass and it was slightly drifting and I was trying to bring is down real soft like I had to with my heli and old quad. But after that I learned and haven't had a flip again.
I have only had 1 tip and that was the first landing in tall grass and it was slightly drifting and I was trying to bring is down real soft like I had to with my heli and old quad. But after that I learned and haven't had a flip again.
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I just don't get the hand catch thing- yeah, I understand that it may look impressive to others standing by, but unless there is absolutely no way that you can safely land, why would you do it?
This leads me to another thing. If you have actually thought out your landing and take-off and you have a alternative landing (which you should) - then I see no reason to try and hand-catch.
I know hand catching looks cool and alot of people do it but is it really the smartest thing to do? All it takes is someone grabbing it and then reaching for the shut down button and hitting the throttle and ouch.
I have had the tip of my finger almost cut off from a prop that spun up out of no where. It's no fun.
Did you read the rest of my post? I have no desire to "look cool" by hand catching. In fact, I would rather NOT do it. I am aware of what could happen and I am very apprehensive every time I do, but after tipping over twice on landing, I feel it is the best option. And please do not jump to conclusions that it was operator error on my part. You weren't there and you have no idea what kind of pilot I am and how I land. I am perfectly aware of how to land (vertical, not like an airplane, no stick input unless necessary, etc.)
Hmmmyeh. In my case it drifted which was solved by re-calibration.
That is why I reported this to maybe help Texy with his flipping over, while the drifting might have been compass/GPS related.
Besides the reported flipping might have occurred with a landing during the GPS problems (interference in his part of USA) he encountered and spoke of in another post.
It's funny to me that just because it hasn't happened to you, then SURELY it must be operator error.
PatR
Premium Pilot
I'm not going to get into the hand catch debate. People have done it, do it, and will continue to do it. If it works for them that's pretty much the end of the discussion.
As for landings and roll overs, my perception has it happening most with newbies to the H in particular, and other multirotors in general. The higher it sits off the ground the greater the propensity to get rolled when landing. This isn't simply because of the length of the gear, it actually has more to do with pendulum effect, which longer gear accentuates. The real problem, IMO, is that newbs have yet to learn to deal with the sensitivity of the sticks when they are near center, and fail to realize that even tiny displacement of the sticks from the center position will cause the H to respond to a command input. They may not realize they are displacing one or both sticks slightly so when the H touches down it still has movement, or is trying to generate movement, in the lateral plane which causes it to roll.
Once the H is on the ground if the props have not reduced to idle mode they will still generate thrust. Any stick command will cause one or more props to speed up and others to slow down as the H tries to comply with the stick commands it is receiving, which in turn causes the H to tip. Many people do not understand that you are not done flying a multirotor until the propellers have stopped. The H is responding to commands received until the props stop turning.
I've rolled my share of multirotors, and every one was my fault because of inappropriate control input or attempting to land on a steep slope or uneven terrain. I rolled an H once, during initial flights, because of stick sensitivity but learned with that one event to keep the sticks centered after touchdown. There's also mention of how the throttle stick is released in a previous post. This is rather important because if one just lets go of the throttle stick from the fully depressed position before the motors have achieved idle the throttle will spring up and cause motor speed to increase. If not paying attention you may have the pitch/roll stick displaced a little so the H will obey those commands and use that throttle increase to make it happen. Then we have those that fly in strong winds, something I do frequently. When landing (take off too) you'll need to apply control input to counter the wind, and hold that input after landing to prevent the H from being blown over. If those control skills have not been developed, and multirotor newbs certainly have not, they will experience roll overs.
I'm not blaming operators per se, but I do tend to put the cause of the majority of roll overs on lack of experience and understanding, which does originate at the operator level. As skill level increases, roll overs decrease proportionately.
As for landings and roll overs, my perception has it happening most with newbies to the H in particular, and other multirotors in general. The higher it sits off the ground the greater the propensity to get rolled when landing. This isn't simply because of the length of the gear, it actually has more to do with pendulum effect, which longer gear accentuates. The real problem, IMO, is that newbs have yet to learn to deal with the sensitivity of the sticks when they are near center, and fail to realize that even tiny displacement of the sticks from the center position will cause the H to respond to a command input. They may not realize they are displacing one or both sticks slightly so when the H touches down it still has movement, or is trying to generate movement, in the lateral plane which causes it to roll.
Once the H is on the ground if the props have not reduced to idle mode they will still generate thrust. Any stick command will cause one or more props to speed up and others to slow down as the H tries to comply with the stick commands it is receiving, which in turn causes the H to tip. Many people do not understand that you are not done flying a multirotor until the propellers have stopped. The H is responding to commands received until the props stop turning.
I've rolled my share of multirotors, and every one was my fault because of inappropriate control input or attempting to land on a steep slope or uneven terrain. I rolled an H once, during initial flights, because of stick sensitivity but learned with that one event to keep the sticks centered after touchdown. There's also mention of how the throttle stick is released in a previous post. This is rather important because if one just lets go of the throttle stick from the fully depressed position before the motors have achieved idle the throttle will spring up and cause motor speed to increase. If not paying attention you may have the pitch/roll stick displaced a little so the H will obey those commands and use that throttle increase to make it happen. Then we have those that fly in strong winds, something I do frequently. When landing (take off too) you'll need to apply control input to counter the wind, and hold that input after landing to prevent the H from being blown over. If those control skills have not been developed, and multirotor newbs certainly have not, they will experience roll overs.
I'm not blaming operators per se, but I do tend to put the cause of the majority of roll overs on lack of experience and understanding, which does originate at the operator level. As skill level increases, roll overs decrease proportionately.
Indeed it is no fun having your craft suddenly tip over when landing. It usually happens so fast and unexpectedly you cannot respond quickly enough, only correct response being to instantly push the throttle all the way up IF the blades have not yet touched the ground.
Three suggestions: (Other good suggestions are given above)
1) The landing surface must be fairly level.
2) A less than perfect Accelerometer calibration can contribute.
3) The ST16 sticks are "soft". It is easy to have the left stick slightly left or right, a recipe for disaster.
Taking off, just as in a real plane, is easy. Landing, just as in a real plane, is difficult. Go slow, slide to Turtle Mode, and don't be distracted,
From about 5 to 10 feet high, come straight down, bumping the right stick to center craft above the landing spot.
Did I say Go Slow...
Three suggestions: (Other good suggestions are given above)
1) The landing surface must be fairly level.
2) A less than perfect Accelerometer calibration can contribute.
3) The ST16 sticks are "soft". It is easy to have the left stick slightly left or right, a recipe for disaster.
Taking off, just as in a real plane, is easy. Landing, just as in a real plane, is difficult. Go slow, slide to Turtle Mode, and don't be distracted,
From about 5 to 10 feet high, come straight down, bumping the right stick to center craft above the landing spot.
Did I say Go Slow...
I've had this happen once. And the reason was simple enough - when I landed I let the left control stick pop back up to mid position.. When it did the Typhoon hopped back up in the air about a foot and I was trying to power down. It capsized and a prop broke. When I watched a few flight and landing videos I noticed a couple that both said to keep the left control still pulled back after you land until you stop the props with the Start/Stop button. I haven't had a problem since.
YMMV of course.
YMMV of course.
PatR
Premium Pilot
After roughly 45 years of flying RC the one thing that has been 100% consistent has been that newbs always "over control" their aircraft and they don't understand their transmitters. I have seen nothing to make me think multirotor newbs are any different. In fact, they may be worse because they believe an auto pilot will always save the day.
- Joined
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I do believe it is operator error on my part because, regardless of the various reasons that it happens, I need to operate it in a way to overcome the tipover. I just know that landing in a different spot (different altitude) and propwash are combining to make it more likely to tip somehow.
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