More Troubles

[KEITH KUHN]

The Typhoon is quite brittle, if it comes down uncontrolled, you will see it. ;-) So, it was a controlled descend. You ran the battery flat or took out with empty-ish battery? The stock Typhoon has two battery warnings. When the voltage drops below first limit, your altitude is limited to 60 meters, the drone descends to that altitude. I usually stop flying before this, or land as soon as this happens, I want to keep some extra margin. The LED's at the motor arms are blinking red. If you continue flying, the next step will be an emergency landing, which might be the case here. Don't push it this far... ;-)

Where do you live btw? The lithium batteries hate cold. Keep the batteries warm. Cold-soaked batteries, approx. < 10 C, are not able to fly the thing.

I understand all that you just said. I live in Ohio, the
Temp was 55 degrees
The Batt was fully charged. BUT. I do not know the overall condition
Of the BATT. B4 I sell it
I will send out some
Telem Files. To see what the experts think.
I don't know how to read
the files. Appreciate your input.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

How did you do it? Did you open the ST16 transmitter and...? ;-)

How did I do what ?

 

[Mrgs1]

Hi Mrgs1,

I would avoid doing it as adviced on that video. You are only making a mess with the contact cleaner, hoping that few drips might go into the pot. Open the ST16, and with a small nozzle/needle on the contact cleaner can, apply it directly to the potentiometer. What is good to know also, is that Yuneec's potentiometers are REALLY cheap and bad. That contact cleaner treatment is good for a while, but eventually you need to replace the gimbal. I haven't managed to find mechanically suitable replacement potentiometers, and they are pain to replace when you look at the construction. When I next time have to replace a gimbal on my ST16 or ST24, I'm going to look if Hitec Aurora's or FRSky's hall effect sensor gimbals would fit... ;-)

We don't seem to suffer the oxidation like the other hotter dryer countries, so it's a rarity here if at all.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

Perhaps it was a Bad or
Aging Battery. I don't have
the proper charger to
Check the state or condition.

 

[Mrgs1]

Perhaps it was a Bad or
Aging Battery. I don't have
the proper charger to
Check the state or condition.

Ah the stock charger is not good for long term use if that's what your saying, those batteries are getting old now and require a good care and storage regime, you could have a cell way out of balance on IR, a good indication of battery health

 

[KEITH KUHN]

I

How did you do it? Did you open the ST16 transmitter and...? ;-)

I Pulled the rubber plugs on the back of the controller. Sprayed inside
At the pots. People have me leaning towards the
Low Battery Problem

 

[KEITH KUHN]

Ah the stock charger is not good for long term use if that's what your saying, those batteries are getting old now and require a good care and storage regime, you could have a cell way out of balance on IR, a good indication of battery health

What is IR ?

 

[Mrgs1]

What is IR ?

A battery with low internal resistance delivers high current on demand. High resistance causes the battery to heat up and the voltage to drop. Temperature also effects the resistance, heat lowers it and cold raises it. Warming the battery will momentarily lower the internal resistance to provide maybe a little extra runtime.

LiPo Characteristics Part 3: Internal Resistance • TheJumperWire

Internal resistance is a key property of LiPo cells. In this post we discuss what it is, how to measure it, and which variables affect its value.

www.thejumperwire.com

 

[PatR]

The concept of using contact cleaner to spray the “pots” actually does little or nothing. It’s nigh onto impossible to flow anything into the pots as they are essentially sealed units, having a very, very small hole for anything to access. There’s another issue that impacts the cleaning issue as I do not believe true potentiometers are used. I believe they are hall sensors reading positional changes.

For the most part the problem does not occur with the potentiometer assemblies, but at the mini JST connectors between the pots and the boards inside the ST-16. Gimbal control issues can also manifest at the JST connector located under the gimbal mount inside the airframe.

The pins used in the JST connectors are very prone to atmospheric induced oxidation. Over time a thin film of non conductive material forms between the male and female pins, inhibiting electrical transfer. The cure is obtained by separating the connectors and using contact cleaner to wet both sides and perform a couple of connect-disconnect cycles while the pins are wet with cleaner.

I have been extremely reluctant to mention the above as some people will damage the JST assemblies or the boards themselves attempting these actions. The JST housings are extremely fragile and separating connectors with any side loading can break them. Using too much force can, and will, cause the housing pins to be pulled out of the board after fracturing the solder joints. Trying to insert a connector into the housing with the connector reversed can also cause housing damage. They can only go back together one way and if you have poor eyesight the odds are quite high you will damage one or more connectors.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

A battery with low internal resistance delivers high current on demand. High resistance causes the battery to heat up and the voltage to drop. Temperature also effects the resistance, heat lowers it and cold raises it. Warming the battery will momentarily lower the internal resistance to provide maybe a little extra runtime.

Now I know what IR
Is.
The 2 Batts I used.
They read 15.3 out of the
Drone.
The other read 16.1
I see why the one gave
me know indication.
But the other Hmmmm

 

[KEITH KUHN]

We don't seem to suffer the oxidation like the other hotter dryer countries, so it's a rarity here if at all.

Thank You for that info
I will keep all that in mind.

About my 2 Batts
They are both labeled
2017, i know one is a bit
Newer than the other.
The one that reads 16.1
Gave me a low Batt Warning. Hmmmm
Anyway I have lots of
Testing to do, B4 I rush
Off to sell everything.
Telem Files for one.
I will get back to you.t
Thanks
PS : No swelling of the Batts

 

[Mrgs1]

Thank You for that info
I will keep all that in mind.

About my 2 Batts
They are both labeled
2017, i know one is a bit
Newer than the other.
The one that reads 16.1
Gave me a low Batt Warning. Hmmmm
Anyway I have lots of
Testing to do, B4 I rush
Off to sell everything.
Telem Files for one.
I will get back to you.
Thanks

Oxidation was on joysticks I was referring too, sorry for confusion.

 

[Pöllö]

The concept of using contact cleaner to spray the “pots” actually does little or nothing. It’s nigh onto impossible to flow anything into the pots as they are essentially sealed units, having a very, very small hole for anything to access. There’s another issue that impacts the cleaning issue as I do not believe true potentiometers are used. I believe they are hall sensors reading positional changes.

For the most part the problem does not occur with the potentiometer assemblies, but at the mini JST connectors between the pots and the boards inside the ST-16. Gimbal control issues can also manifest at the JST connector located under the gimbal mount inside the airframe.

The pins used in the JST connectors are very prone to atmospheric induced oxidation. Over time a thin film of non conductive material forms between the male and female pins, inhibiting electrical transfer. The cure is obtained by separating the connectors and using contact cleaner to wet both sides and perform a couple of connect-disconnect cycles while the pins are wet with cleaner.

I have been extremely reluctant to mention the above as some people will damage the JST assemblies or the boards themselves attempting these actions. The JST housings are extremely fragile and separating connectors with any side loading can break them. Using too much force can, and will, cause the housing pins to be pulled out of the board after fracturing the solder joints. Trying to insert a connector into the housing with the connector reversed can also cause housing damage. They can only go back together one way and if you have poor eyesight the odds are quite high you will damage one or more connectors.

Hi PatR,

Unfortunately.. they are true mechanical potentiometers, very low quality ones. The contact cleaner can reach the wiper and copper track inside the pot if it is sprayed directly (and liberally.. ;-) at the opening in the potentiometer case using a small needle. It helps .. for a while. This is a quite common trick with vintage electronics like tube amps; their 40+ years old, oxided noisy and cracking potentiometers can be repaired with it. Like Yuneec's 2-year old potentiometers, but these ones only temporarily... ;-) The pins in JST connectors are of course prone to oxidation, but even more than that, copper tracks and cheap low quality carbon wipers inside the pots are prone to it.

Hall effect sensors, being solid-state devices, do not have this kind of problems, and with small adaptation circuitry, they could be used to replace these. Or higher-quality gimbal assemblies like Hitec's one (potentiometer-based) Hitec 2 Axis Joystick GIM-01 or a Hall sensor one: FrSky M9 Hall Sensor Gimbal Installation For Taranis X9D Plus - FrSky - Lets you set the limits

But of course, I agree with you regarding the small connectors. Those small connectors are only good for very limited number of connections, they are designed and built for only few removals and connections (device assembly and few repairs).

Br,

TR

 

[Pöllö]

I

I Pulled the rubber plugs on the back of the controller. Sprayed inside
At the pots. People have me leaning towards the
Low Battery Problem

Hmmh, that does not sound that good for me. If you are spraying something through the holes back of the controller, you are probably only making a mess inside the ST16, with few droplets maybe hitting the plastic cases of the pots that does no good. I would not do it this way. But while opening the ST16, be careful with the wires inside the controller, it is not that cleanly built... ;-)

If you are having issues with the logs, the battery issue should be quite easy to resolve without them too: The Typhoon will fly around 15-20 minutes with fresh and fully charged, warm batteries. Old, emptyish, cold-soaked batteries are not capable of it. If the red lights were blinking rapidly when the drone came down, the battery was surely depleted.

 

[Mrgs1]

Hmmh, that does not sound that good for me. If you are spraying something through the holes back of the controller, you are probably only making a mess inside the ST16, with few droplets maybe hitting the plastic cases of the pots that does no good. I would not do it this way. But while opening the ST16, be careful with the wires inside the controller, it is not that cleanly built... ;-)

If you are having issues with the logs, the battery issue should be quite easy to resolve without them too: The Typhoon will fly around 15-20 minutes with fresh and fully charged, warm batteries. Old, emptyish, cold-soaked batteries are not capable of it. If the red lights were blinking rapidly when the drone came down, the battery was surely depleted.

Will in interesting to see how many get 15/ 20 minutes flight time? I suspect very few with Power4.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

Will in interesting to see how many get 15/ 20 minutes flight time? I suspect very few with Power4.

I did a test Flight with
with a 16.1 V Batt
with no camera.
55 degrees 5 MPH wind.
First low Batt warning
At 4:55 Huhh not good.
Time to test another one of my Batteries.

 

[Mrgs1]

I did a test Flight with
with a 16.1 V Batt
with no camera.
55 degrees 5 MPH wind.
First low Batt warning
At 4:55 Huhh not good.
Time to test another one of my Batteries.

I wouldn't take off for a flight at 16.1volts. Leaving the ground will take another load of juice, (watch that voltmeter on St16) even slowly taking off, something sounds up, 16.6 is a good charge. I never go to low battery warnings, but that's me.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

I am in agreement with @Mrgs1 on all pounts. Almost 5 minutes on a 16.1 take off is not bad.

I’m getting maybe 10 minutes on a good day. But, I do not fly to warnings. Usually on the ground at 14.6, rebounding near 15.1 upon motor shutdown.

Amazing how little time I spend discharging to storage level, using this technique. Then again, if the operation demands it, I do have to confidence to push the craft.

Good luck, Keith.

Jeff

 

[Pöllö]

Umm.. what is happening here? ;-) Are your batteries dead or cold-soaked? I am getting constantly 10 minutes out of 3000 mAh batteries I built myself (Hobbyking's "4000" mAh cells inside Yuneec's cases). 2000 mAh Tattu racing battery kept the TH airborne for 8 minutes. Power 4's (6000-something mAh) give me 15 or so minutes easily.

Keep those batteries warm. What is comfortable for you, is comfortable for the battery too. ;-)

 

[KEITH KUHN]

I wouldn't take off for a flight at 16.1volts. Leaving the ground will take another load of juice, (watch that voltmeter on St16) even slowly taking off, something sounds up, 16.6 is a good charge. I never go to low battery warnings, but that's me.

I hear you, I will recharge & retest that Batt.
From whai remember
I am not sure if it charges
to 16.7 - anymore.
I will double check it.
Thanks