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Now I understand the "Fly Away"

Might be worth giving Yuneec a call about that antenna. You'll have to wait until after the holiday's though. They are closed until then.

Looks like I'll have the new one with a couple of upgrades next week. Cost ends up close to what a RealSense version runs. $1319.00. I had yet to use the OA on the original and after 7+ months and 200+ flights not needing it there was little reason to add RS or IPS.

Just learned the treed camera came out unscathed aside from a couple separated anti vibration balls. That took about 4 minutes to fix.
 
Hi Pat,
Sorry to come in late on this - been tied up with life.....
Reading through your post (in its entirety) shows just how well Yuneec can conduct themselves in regards to customer service. There is no doubt in my mind that the way you remained positive throughout this process has played a large part in this. As they say, "like character, like destiny".

Let's hope you get back in the air soon and that Yuneec can shed some light on what caused the incident.
 
@PatR

Will Yuneec go into detail as to what caused the flyaway? This is extremely important being a longtime AC pilot with only one flyaway (hardware glitch on the AUAV-X2), seeing these flyaways concerns me. Great CS aside, Yuneec needs to be transparent if they know what the root cause is so we know what to do to prevent it. If they don't know, same thing.

Just my 2c.
 
@PatR

Will Yuneec go into detail as to what caused the flyaway? This is extremely important being a longtime AC pilot with only one flyaway (hardware glitch on the AUAV-X2), seeing these flyaways concerns me. Great CS aside, Yuneec needs to be transparent if they know what the root cause is so we know what to do to prevent it. If they don't know, same thing.

Just my 2c.

I'm hoping there is a code geek waiting for that data.....


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@PatR

Will Yuneec go into detail as to what caused the flyaway? This is extremely important being a longtime AC pilot with only one flyaway (hardware glitch on the AUAV-X2), seeing these flyaways concerns me. Great CS aside, Yuneec needs to be transparent if they know what the root cause is so we know what to do to prevent it. If they don't know, same thing.

Just my 2c.

Glider,
As you know what I do you probably know investigative stuff is my cup of tea.

I am also hoping for that transparency but I won't be holding my breath. Two words that have never gone together are transparent and China. Some of my e-mail communications are describing in detail what actions occurred prior to the fly away, along with description of what Robbi experienced and what he found. I informed them my reasons for providing such detail is to assist in providing possible causal factors that could be used for product improvement. I am very tempted to take the shell off of mine to see what is to be seen and photo document as I go but I've already said I would leave it untouched. That could change. They are gone for the holiday's so there's little to be communicated for now.

Craig,

If the fly away was caused by EMI the code geek will probably not be much help. The guy that can plot out a bunch of streamed telemetry relationships in Excel will be the one that paints a picture.
 
How good are you at climbing trees? 46' up is a bit of a stretch for a 64 year old guy. It's nested itself pretty well.


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Call a tree service. I called a local one in the summer when I got one of my fixed-wing rc planes stuck 35 feet up in a white pine. Only cost me 50 bucks, but I tipped him well since I had about $500 worth of telemetry equipment in it.
 
Its the cold weather, 200 flights above 30'f
Never had a problem.
Flew 2wice in last week both sub 28' first flight low battery voltage alert after 3 minites,loss of video managed to save it.

Second flight different day after 3 minites my video froze. I was staying right above myself because i thought there may be a problem and there was.
I have not had time to make a post but suspect this aircraft does not agree with extreme cold?
 
Wow, Up a tree without a paddle. Sorry for your issue. You should provide photos, Google Earth location so Yunnec forum users around the world can MacGyver a way out of this. Yuneec pilots of many backgrounds can team up and create a plan. Maybe using another Typhoon H to drop a line for rescue. Once retrieved the drone repairs should be minimal to props and damages caused by prolonged freezing temps. Since you had video, the camera should be intact. Good luck
 
LOL
You like I never read the whole post. He has it back and off to Yuneec to get fix :)
 
Onthebrinc,

It's possible but I think unlikely if above 20* or so. I've flown a Chroma quite a lot in temps down to ~15* with no problems at all and I suspect the Chroma and the H share a lot of component choices.

Frozen video is usually caused by a lost video signal. It's quite possible the orientation of the antenna at the front of the camera and the orientation of the antenna on the ST-16 were such the H was outside of the reception zone. Hard to say without being there and seeing it.

There have been a posts where short battery times have been mentioned but not specifically referencing use in cold weather, where useful time will always be reduced. What I typically do not see in those posts, be they referring to warm or cold weather operations, is any history relative to how a battery had been used previously. Because of this I tend to view every battery complaint post with some level of suspicion.

What follows should not be viewed as directed at you but as something for all lipo users to review to determine if they might be the cause of shout useful battery time, and short battery life cycle.

Lipo battery life and useful time is impacted by many different things, most of which are under the control of the user. Useful flight time is impacted by how the user treats the batteries. Assuming that all lipo's are created equally (they are not) a user can significantly reduce battery functionality by;
  • Over discharging in flight.
Someone that always flies their battery down to the low voltage or auto land level will induce cell damage that accumulates over time. A battery will start out providing good flight time but each successive flight will provide just a little less flight time than the previous flight.
  • Charging immediately after discharging.
Batteries generate heat when being discharged. Batteries should be permitted to cool after use before being subjected to another charge cycle.
  • Storing at full charge.
Some like to charge their batteries after the end of a day's flying in order to be ready for flight on another day. This is not an issue if flying the next day or the day after but storing full charged for a week or more is hard on a battery and causes cell damage. Even small amounts of cell damage reduce useful time, and every extended storage period where the battery was stored fully charged reduces battery performance just a little more.
  • Charging at excessive rates.
Charging a battery generates heat. Charging a battery at a rate higher than the cell construction can tolerate generates even more heat. The amount of heat a cell can tolerate is finite and exceeding the limit damages cells, reducing useful flight time.
  • Fast discharging in flight.
Those that like to fly as fast as they can by turning off GPS rapidly drain their batteries. The fact that flying at high speed with the GPS turned off causes the battery indicator to show a very fast voltage drop indicates the batteries are not of a sufficient C rating to deal with a high amp load, or that the system is just pulling too many amps. That is supported by the jump in indicated battery voltage after resuming "normal" flight. We should remember that consumer level products are designed around standards that provide for the least amount of product cost in order to maximize post sales profit while still being at a price point consumers are willing to pay. Minimal cost usually does not provide the highest quality.
  • Ambient storage temperatures
Those that store their batteries in a relatively controlled temperature environment will have better batteries than those that leave them in the trunk of a car. Leaving them in an unheated garage during periods of extreme cold also impacts a lipo.
  • Failing to balance charge
Balance charging matters greatly. Not balance charging means one or more cells can end up at a much higher or lower voltage than adjacent cells. When put in use, cells with a much higher voltage can end up being drawn down faster than lower voltage cells, generating more heat in the higher voltage cell. Alternatively, voltage from a strong cell might be directed to a weaker cell, reducing over all output.
  • Outside air temperature while in use
Lipo's have an operational temperature range. Using them in temps higher or lower, especially significantly lower, impacts their useful time. Useful time is proportional to the temperature at which it is used. Really cold temps will provide really short flight time, and that difference is not accurately predictable. How it is flown has its own impact on useful time separate from time loss due to temperature.

So, how a battery is used establishes how well a battery can do what it's supposed to do. Lacking battery use data provided by a user there is virtually no way of assessing battery performance. Number of use cycles, battery voltage before and after use, time in minutes and seconds for each flight on the battery, conditions of flight, charge rate, ma to achieve full charge, how the battery was stored, ambient temperature a battery was stored in, cell balance, etc., all combine to establish how our batteries perform. A poorly performing battery may well be performing exactly as it should if it had been treated badly. It might also be a poorly made battery, where how it was made established it might never perform well. The latter is one of the negatives of proprietary batteries. We don't know who made them and have little ability to research the history of the battery manufacturer. We should assume we are being provided the least expensive cells available, which will most assuredly create a lot of variety in cell quality. However, I think we've all seen a enough posts describing how some people fly to establish that a very large number of battery problems are user induced. This is supported by the lack of battery history information when people lament about poor flight times. Some of that information deficiency is because many have very little understanding of their equipment or don't want to invest in accessory equipment that would permit them to take much better care of their batteries.

A battery that has sustained internal damage will often charge to full voltage but it will deplete that charge very quickly. As an example, I obtained a used battery at what I thought was a good price. That battery arrived at my door in a 12.8v charge state. Checking cell balance provided quite a difference in cell voltage. A slow charge up to full provided a full charge voltage of 16.67v. Pretty much normal for a fully charged Yuneec H battery. Useful time for this battery has not exceeded 4 minutes of even the most gentle flight since I obtained it. The battery from the incident event generating this thread was deep discharged, with the voltage at time of recovery at 12.8v. I'm fairly sure it will charge back to full level but I am also certain it will not retain a charge or discharge properly. Both batteries have been damaged by over discharge, neither battery will ever again provide decent use time.

Ultimately our batteries are our gas tanks and how you drive will establish the kind of mileage you will get.
 
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The tree is not mine and the size of the thing suggests the owners might not like hacking at it. Best boom truck option has a 60' boom at a couple hundred $$ for rental but it could not get close enough to make use of it. Too much snow on the ground, property access is restricted, and a fair amount of damage to the property getting in and out is assured. There would need to be a couple trees removed to get to it. Closest the truck could get to the tree is about 80', before extending the boom. I'm tight with local emergency responders but that's a no go regardless for the same reason, poor access and they don't want to risk the equipment or damage private property. A friend has a Hughes 500 but the H is well nested and would not get blown off the tree.

Being in a tree sounds like an easy thing to recover from until you start looking at all the factors involved. Climbing will likely be the only way, but that only works if the tree branches getting to it will support the climber. I won't put someone in a position where they could take a 40' fall for a toy, nor generate a few thousand $$ in property damage to recover it. It's not worth a broken back or a death. Frustrating to be able to see it. So close yet so far away.

As for determining what went wrong, even if I recover it and send it in the odds of Yuneec telling me what failed are pretty slim. There's a trouble ticket started. Anyone know what error flag 32 represents?
Error 32 is compass error.
 
The height is pretty close to what it's reporting, perhaps a little higher. I stopped hunting after leaving Iraq. 4 legged game just doesn't present as much of a challenge.


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I had a argument with a bird and landed on top of a tree 93 feet up. When you drag the fishing line up you do not want to pull the end of the line as you come down on the other side as the line will tangle with your blade and you may lose two H's. Get a roll of fishing line that is at least 2-1/2 times as long as the tree is tall and with a good strength ( I used 80lb) If you cannot get a single roll, tie two together. Get you a small dowel rod that will fit through the hole on the fishing line spool. After inserting the rod in the spool, place tape around both ends to build it up to about a 1/8 of an inch thick. Will explain why in a moment. I attached the end of the string to a heavy wrench, you can use whatever is handy. The object is to carry the spool under the H, up and over the branch where the crashed H is located, drape it around the branch and drop the spool through the branches surrounding the H. The spool will then fall THROUGH and AROUND the branches holding the H, then continue down to ground level. Just draping it over the tree will not secure it enough around the branch that needs to be pulled on to release the H and it could slip off. Then secure the line to a small rope with enough strength to shake the branches.
The dowel rod will be placed over the front of the landing gear with each end extending about an inch or two beyond the legs. The tapes placed on the dowels earlier it to keep the dowel from sliding off while flying the H up to the top of the tree. Once you have draped the line over and around the branches, you raise your landing gear and the spool will drop through the branches to the ground.
If you have help, have them stretch a blanket under the tree holding it off the ground to catch the H when it falls, or you will have a lot of pieces to send Yuneec.

Another preferred method is a aerial rescue. My second H had the camera in the shop having a Pixaero lens installed when the above happened. So I was not able to use this method. If you have a second H and are proficient with it, then attempt picking up the crashed H with a hook hanging under your second H. Put the H in Turtle Mode for slow movements with the camera facing down to see what you are doing and try to hook it and lift it out of the tree. *** Just in case you do hook the crashed H and it is lodged to where you cannot lift it out, Connect your hook on a stick laying on the landing legs in the same fashion as above with the fishing line. Then if you are able to hook the crashed H and cannot dislodge it from the tree, you can lift your landing gear and release the hook freeing your second H to return to land.

Good Luck!
 
Pat, I'm so sorry to hear about this and I hope you're somehow able to retrieve it. My H in Iceland is still flying in a very flaky way. I flew 3 batteries yesterday the first two were great flights...with the third battery it
started drifting horribly from side to side...I almost hit the top of a glacial calf but pulled it back in time...it took a while to catch land it...I guess it's good it started drifting early in the flight...your situation is very sad and I hope somehow it works out for you....I'll be interested to hear if you ever figure out what the problem was.
You really should consider the P4P as an option in the very near future. The camera is quite simply amazing.
 
Good to hear from you again Burnt but as long as DJI retains control of the equipment it won't happen with my dollars. While they have Geo DJI is dead to me. I buy tools that I exercise control over, not nanny's managed by an outside agency.
 
The tree needs to be somewhere the FD will go/can get to. I'm not in the big city.


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My friend give a kid $20 to climb that **** tree. If i can keep it i will come & climb it & im 62 in march. Let me kno
 
I'm donating a bottle of 1910 to the recovery expert. My age isn't what stopped me from climbing the tree. I used to enjoy that kind of stuff. It's what has been done to the body during that time that hinders things. None of that needs be related.
 

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