Transition From Hover to Flight "Jerky"

[CraigCam]

Pat, I put in the curves and it's incredible. No more jerk!!!! And turtle mode is crazy cool now. It's like I've got my DX9 sticks back. It's even more of a joy to fly now as the smooth control of acceleration and de-acceleration is awesome. Love the point plots.

 

[ArnhemAnt]

Broken Line Rate Curve
So what I have set up on my ST16 is a type of dual rate that seems to be the best of both worlds. In this way one can leave the rate switch on the side of the transmitter at full but as the stick is moved, the rate of output is basically the same as turtle until it hits the third point and then it applies the full range of the stick movement. In this way I can have the craft react like its in turtle but can get on it pretty quick if I need to. Best of both worlds.

Pat

This is a very handy adjustment. Any chance of making a dedicated thread for this and including some sort of 'tutorial' with a step-by-step approach to making these modifications?

 

[Ty Pilot]

Sure, if the mods wanna sticky it I will make a video and post it.

 

[CraigCam]

Sure, if the mods wanna sticky it I will make a video and post it.

Maybe a folder with the screen shots for different St mods? I went back to my own thread here for my shots of my main ST to add in gimbal settings I like on this new ST and H I'm setting up. And now I put these new ones for rudder and ailerons from this thread on to main ST as well. Love sharing this positive stuff and not all the complaints all the time here. Nice job.

 

[ArnhemAnt]

Love sharing this positive stuff and not all the complaints all the time here. Nice job.

Absolutely. The Typhoon H and St16 are a great package that can be customised to suit a lot of different flying/filming styles and applications. Being able to 'tweak' the ST16 as above just goes to highlight this.
Can't wait to see the step-by-step info from Pat (Ty Pilot). You two (Ty Pilot and CraigCam) have been a great influence on making alterations to the St16 and I am sure that many other members are also grateful for your input.

 

[Dr Delta]

I am sure that many other members are also grateful for your input.

Righto....!

 

[Rubik]

Doninator, One of the first things I noticed about the H was what exactly you're seeing, it has an initial hit, then goes on its way
Broken Line Rate Curve
So what I have set up on my ST16 is a type of dual rate that seems to be the best of both worlds.
View attachment 5816

Pat, I'm excited to try this as I have also been surprised by how much initial stick movement was require to get the TH off hover. But, how is your point-to-point approach different than applying expo flatness near the center?
By the way, the trim tabs also require 2 or 3 clicks before anything happens. Will changing the rate curve effect this?

 

[Windluv]

Thank you Ty Pilot. Made the change and I really do like it. One less adjustments to calculate while flying and it responds much better balanced relative to the yaw.

The loiter braking is still present, but overall the lower speed handling is improved and you get the high speed performance as well. I think I can fly my full envelope from take off, ocean wave runnung, proximity to landing in rabbit mode. Great job!

 

[Ty Pilot]

Pat, I'm excited to try this as I have also been surprised by how much initial stick movement was require to get the TH off hover. But, how is your point-to-point approach different than applying expo flatness near the center?
By the way, the trim tabs also require 2 or 3 clicks before anything happens. Will changing the rate curve effect this?

I found that the expo, just prolongs the "Hit" to execute movement (Aileron and Elevator). I experimented with expo settings from 10% to about 40% and what I found was that, as you get to higher expo rate the stick just becomes dead around center. I am not sure, but I think the software is looking for a certain percentage of output before it allows the craft to respond to that command. With expo, I seemed to be getting the sudden start and then a return to slow movement at many times a stop would follow. I think this was due to a very flat line and the software not differentiating enough but I could be wrong as I am not a tech guy. I will emphasis that this is with VERY subtle and slow movements of the stick with expo trying to find the limits.

The broken line curve is linear and shallow so maybe this is interpreted by the software better? All I can tell you for sure is that from a piloting perspective I'm finding that between the two (expo and Broken line/Dual rate) I prefer the latter as it seems to minimize the effect.

BTW, I shot part of a video showing the steps and the reaction of the craft today and will get the rest hopefully tomorrow if it doesn't rain, so for those that want a video I will have it soon.

Pat

 

[Ty Pilot]

Thank you Ty Pilot. Made the change and I really do like it. One less adjustments to calculate while flying and it responds much better balanced relative to the yaw.

The loiter braking is still present, but overall the lower speed handling is improved and you get the high speed performance as well. I think I can fly my full envelope from take off, ocean wave runnung, proximity to landing in rabbit mode. Great job!

Thank you, glad you like it.

Pat

 

[Ty Pilot]

By the way, the trim tabs also require 2 or 3 clicks before anything happens. Will changing the rate curve effect this?

Just saw this, and the simply answer is I don't think so. I think the software wants to see a small percentage of positive movement before it confirms the command.

Pat

 

[Dominator]

Doninator, One of the first things I noticed about the H was what exactly you're seeing, it has an initial hit, then goes on its way and once it is moving - then it does all transitioning very smooth. Most people likely don't notice it but it is there. This is only on the elevator and aileron channels, the rudder (yaw) channel is very smooth in transition. I experimented trying to add expo into the Elevator and Aileron but with mixed results; it seems that no matter how flat you get the curve around center, the craft does not respond until it gets to a certain level and then begins to go.

Broken Line Rate Curve
So what I have set up on my ST16 is a type of dual rate that seems to be the best of both worlds. In this way one can leave the rate switch on the side of the transmitter at full but as the stick is moved, the rate of output is basically the same as turtle until it hits the third point and then it applies the full range of the stick movement. In this way I can have the craft react like its in turtle but can get on it pretty quick if I need to. Best of both worlds.

Pat

View attachment 5816

Thanks Pat, will try this.

 

[CraigCam]

Pat, I'm excited to try this as I have also been surprised by how much initial stick movement was require to get the TH off hover. But, how is your point-to-point approach different than applying expo flatness near the center?
By the way, the trim tabs also require 2 or 3 clicks before anything happens. Will changing the rate curve effect this?

Yes it does. Trim/cruise responds immediately now with these point plots.

 

[CraigCam]

I've now logged 3 flights with the new stick curves and it's incredible. Check out how great the slow response is even in turtle. I'm going to see how point plot might also work on gimbal over expo curves I made. The H is so responsive now it's like getting a whole new bird.

 

[ArnhemAnt]

BTW, I shot part of a video showing the steps and the reaction of the craft today and will get the rest hopefully tomorrow if it doesn't rain, so for those that want a video I will have it soon.

Pat

Thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing the video when you get it finalised.

 

[Rubik]

So I made many Channel Setting rate changes (aileron & elevator) and flew the TH to test the results. It appears that there is a certain amount of deadband built into the system that prevents leaving a stable hover unless there is a certain minimum amount of output value from the controls. The rate settings convert stick input motion into output values. By reducing the rate near center point more stick movement is required to provide that minimum output value. The advantage, however, is that once the minimum output value is reached, the rate is still fairly low so the TH doesn't jerk as much. Expo2 at 20% seemed to make the deadband feel larger. BrokenLIne at 4:- 15%, 6: +15% worked better as Ty Pilot has indicated. It may also be important that 3: and 7: be set fairly low +/- 30%? I did not test this last statement. It was starting to sprinkle. I hope this information adds to our understanding of the control system.

 

[Rubik]

Oh yes, one more thing.
With the above settings, the trim pads now require 7 clicks off center to get anything to happen. This is probably a result of reducing the rate around center. The default straight line rate setting required 4 clicks. No problem for me, I rarely use the trim pads.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Rubik, Thats what I am seeing as well, that the H will not move until it receives a certain percentage of output, but after that point, the rate line can be as shallow as one desires.
Yuneec, are you listening? Can we get that percent down in the next firmware release, please! That would make this thing into a smooth flying and handling beast.

Pat

 

[CraigCam]

I just flew in very gusty wind and the new level of control is much more predictable. If you are facing the wind, you get a slight jerk as you move forward but that was into an over 15mph headwind.

 

[PatR]

Craig,

It may not be a bad idea to add your work with these settings to the new manual thread. Great work!