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Typhoon H Strange Battery Behaviour - Again!!!

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Hi All

Typhoon H batteries are really annoying me. After scrapping a brand new GiFi Battery (3 flights) because it just wont charge, I now have 5 other batteries performing poorly. Grateful if someone could have a look at the attached data.

I have situations ranging from very short flight times (4 1/2 minutes) to fully charged batteries immediately dropping to battery warning levels on take-off (and then showing as almost fully charged on the ground).

Any thoughts would be helpful. At the moment I am suspecting, the batteries, the drone and the charger.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

Evan
 

Attachments

  • 25 March Typhoon H Battery Behaviour.pdf
    110.9 KB · Views: 25
Need a bunch more info. What charger are you using, what's the date (if any) on your batteries, what are your flying conditions and style, age and firmware of you H and ST 16. Oh, and how are you storing your batteries between flights, i.e., at what charge level? If you're leaving them fully charged for more than a day or two, that's going to be a problem. If you're flying right up to the last battery warning all the time, another problem. Cold temps can reduce flight time, as can excessively warm temps. My first suspect would be the charger, I don't know anything about the one that comes with the H, but my experience with other included chargers never impressed me, that's why I have a pretty decent smart charger. Later.

Dave

Just thought of something else. Do you have a decent volt meter, one that is accurate and goes low enough to read individual cell voltages? A charger problem could lead to one cell getting undercharged, with the others overcharged to compensate. Final voltage might be correct, but it's a recipe for short battery life.
 
Sounds like a case of doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

The thread title references Yuneec batteries but starts off with GiFi batteries that are certainly not Yuneec products. It then talks about other batteries of unmentioned brand. You didn’t mention the voltage condition in which batteries are stored, which has a tremendous impact on batteries. Also not mentioned are the ambient temperatures the batteries are being flown in.

Your data shows that 3 of the 4 batteries have have extremely high IR in one cell, with a fourth on it’s way. Personally, I would have tossed the 3 high IR batteries a long time ago as they are no longer reliable. They are performing exactly as they should be expected to, poorly or not at all. Any cell with an IR over 15 or so is going bad.
 
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There is certainly some evidence there of bad batteries. The fact that all extremely high IR values are all on cell one also suggests that the charger is bad. (which may be how the batteries got bad) Have you tried a different charger? Note that if the batteries were not bad before, they could be now.
What you need now is a nearby friend that has both a good battery and a good charger. You could possibly eliminate the drone, and see if any of the batteries can be recovered. Drones probably OK. Not looking good for the batteries.
 
Sounds like a case of doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

The thread title references Yuneec batteries but starts off with GiFi batteries that are certainly not Yuneec products. It then talks about other batteries of unmentioned brand. You didn’t mention the voltage condition in which batteries are stored, which has a tremendous impact on batteries. Also not mentioned are the ambient temperatures the batteries are being flown in.

Your data shows that 3 of the 4 batteries have have extremely high IR in one cell, with a fourth on it’s way. Personally, I would have tossed the 3 high IR batteries a long time ago as they are no longer reliable. They are performing exactly as they should be expected to, poorly or not at all. Any cell with an IR over 15 or so is going bad.


Thanks for the response although not entirely sure what you mean by your first line, but any way:

5 Yuneec batteries (bought from Yuneec UK or other resellers oldest is 3 years old (Battery 1) +1 GiFi Battery (yes I know its not a Yuneec product).

All batteries stored at storage charge when not in use - from preset on A10 Smart charger purchased from Yuneec UK. will check exact voltage tomorrow.

Flew H today, got 6.5 to 8.5 mins (airborne) from Batteries 1,2,4,5 Battery 3 behaved as before (tested in hover, in ground effect, lasted 1 min) Charge cycles range 50,48,38,34,18 respectively.

OAT on flights that precipitated the first post 8 C wind 10 mpg gusting 15. Today 16 C, wind 1 mph.

How long can these batteries sit at storage charge?
Is there a minimum ambient temp for storage?

Seems like there is next to no information on IR levels etc etc in the official documentation!
 
Thanks Dave my responses in bold.

What charger are you using: A10 Charger from Yuneec UK.
Battery Dates: Oldest Battery purchased 2 1/2 years ago. Need to check actual dates on batteries.
Flying conditions: Wind 0 -12 mph Gusts up to 15 Flying style not aggressive
Age / firmware: 2 yrs 8 months, latest
Battery Storage: Storage charge from A10 Smart Charger

If you're leaving them fully charged for more than a day or two, that's going to be a problem. Ok didn't know that, may have them at full charge for a week at most. As usual no guidance on this. Other posts on other threads haven't suggested that the batteries are that sensitive.

If you're flying right up to the last battery warning all the time: Never fly to the first battery warning alway land at 14.7v
OAT for the past two flights : 8 - 16C.

My first suspect would be the charger, I don't know anything about the one that comes with the H, but my experience with other included chargers never impressed me, that's why I have a pretty decent smart charger. Its a A10 Smart Charger bought from Yuneec UK

Do you have a decent volt meter, one that is accurate and goes low enough to read individual cell voltages? Yes, second load of figures was from the voltmeter. First load of figures was from the Smart charger. Battery 3 which just dumps the voltage as soon as it comes under load was perfectly balanced.

I may have identified an issue with one of the charging cables as the same battery gives different readings with different cables.
 
There is certainly some evidence there of bad batteries. The fact that all extremely high IR values are all on cell one also suggests that the charger is bad. (which may be how the batteries got bad) Have you tried a different charger? Note that if the batteries were not bad before, they could be now.
What you need now is a nearby friend that has both a good battery and a good charger. You could possibly eliminate the drone, and see if any of the batteries can be recovered. Drones probably OK. Not looking good for the batteries.

Thanks, charger is a realtively new SMART charger (A10). Seem like the technology undepinning these batteries has not matured enough yet! Will see what I can do to recover batteries, compare with another.
 
Personally, I believe you are dealing with several factors, one or more your fault, others not. You are also likely dealing with factors that have received very little attention in these forums thus far.

The first item is the stated age of the batteries. You mentioned 3 years. Although a high quality, well maintained and well treated battery can last for 3 years or more we might want to accept we are not being provided high quality batteries. The prices charged for some of them is indicative of that. Where the factory Yuneec batteries are concerned the high price is not due to battery quality. They are not all that great. What we are paying for is the case design that in turn limits what batteries we can use and where they can be obtained. When you have to use something that can only be obtained in one or a few places the price will be whatever they want to charge us. We pay it or do without. IMHO, your batteries have lasted longer than I would expect batteries of this quality standard (low) to last, and based on IR values one cell in three of them has reached end of life. Our batteries are like gasoline. They get consumed and require replacement if we want to keep flying.

Not fully understanding storage levels and duration has had some impact. A couple days of full charge isn't a big deal, but a week or more stacks up when done repeatedly. Those that are particularly diligent (I'm not) take care of their batteries immediately after flying or determining that no further flying will be done for the day. This is something most learn the hard way.

The charger itself should not be a factor as the A10 is nothing more than a rebranded Hitec product, Hitec X2 IRRC. Hitec makes good quality, reliable equipment, and has been for many years.

Where we can and do run into problems is with charge cables, something almost never mentioned. If you haven't noticed, most of the charge cables included with after market battery chargers are rather small in diameter, or (AWG) gauge. The same applies to battery adapter leads. Light gauge, thin wire has greater resistance than larger gauge wire. even two wires of the same gauge and length can possess quite different levels of resistance because of wire strand count. The one with more stands will usually have lower resistance. Length of wire also changes resistance, with longer wires having more resistance than shorter wires. We also have quality of the solder joints at the connectors to factor in, along with the quality of the connectors themselves.

Something I make it a point to do is standardize all my charge cables. 12AWG multistrand silicone wire and bullet proof solder joints. Everything ends up about 12" long to make them easy to work with. That helps minimize wire resistance and maximize current flow during various charging processes. Typically my charge cables only add 2 or less milliohms to the battery IR measurement. Wire resistance is a portion of your battery IR readings,along with all the connectors between the battery and the charger. Bad cables can influence your IR measurements quite a lot.
 
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Personally, I believe you are dealing with several factors, one or more your fault, others not. You are also likely dealing with factors that have received very little attention in these forums thus far.
etc

Thanks PatR, looks like I need to put this down to experience. Interestingly the two remaining batteries are the oldest with the most charge cycles. Ho hum!
 
I would have expected a better charger from Yuneec. The basic charger gives no indication of cell capacity. Looking at buying a connection harness to use a dedicated LiPo balance charger. Or making one. The power connections are a standard type, just spaced apart, unfortunately the balance connections ar not normal balance connectors, but I would assume in line but can easyly be checked with a meter. Epoxy them together.
 
@Sheepdog, have you looked at these?

HTTP:
[URL]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuneec-Typhoon-H-Drone-Battery-to-Charger-Adapter-Plug-with-Balance-Leads-by/323757924370?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D56922%26meid%3D08dad9986e6046ddbf67d572cf230149%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D323757924370%26itm%3D323757924370&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aefede20f-5334-11e9-b38f-74dbd180d57b%7Cparentrq%3Ad08f44a01690ac807280257dffed9dd1%7Ciid%3A1[/URL]

Or do a search for "Typhoon H Balance Charger Leads".
 
I would have expected a better charger from Yuneec. The basic charger gives no indication of cell capacity. Looking at buying a connection harness to use a dedicated LiPo balance charger. Or making one. The power connections are a standard type, just spaced apart, unfortunately the balance connections ar not normal balance connectors, but I would assume in line but can easyly be checked with a meter. Epoxy them together.

You are extremely late to the party. Adaptor cables have been available from several sources since late 2016. You can make them if you want, or order them for a lot less time and labor.
 
You are extremely late to the party. Adaptor cables have been available from several sources since late 2016. You can make them if you want, or order them for a lot less time and labor.

Story of my life, always late for the party.
 
@Sheepdog, have you looked at these?

HTTP:
[URL]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuneec-Typhoon-H-Drone-Battery-to-Charger-Adapter-Plug-with-Balance-Leads-by/323757924370?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D56922%26meid%3D08dad9986e6046ddbf67d572cf230149%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D323757924370%26itm%3D323757924370&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aefede20f-5334-11e9-b38f-74dbd180d57b%7Cparentrq%3Ad08f44a01690ac807280257dffed9dd1%7Ciid%3A1[/URL]

Or do a search for "Typhoon H Balance Charger Leads".

1st, US site, no good for me in UK.
But I find most adapters use 14awg. I prefer as some one else. 12 awg. so going to make my own.

Started tonight. will do a separate post. Learning as I go type of thing.
 
1st, US site, no good for me in UK.
But I find most adapters use 14awg. I prefer as some one else. 12 awg. so going to make my own.

Started tonight. will do a separate post. Learning as I go type of thing.
Been many times when I've had to pay for something, plus postage and import duties.some things you cannot get here, so you have to pay up and look big I'm afraid. Our market is small compared to the rest of the world.
 
Majority of my battery woes went away when I started warming them an hour before flight. At 75-80* f I'm getting 13-15 minutes flown steady at 20 mph.

These are GFI batteries I got low voltage warnings just after takeoff when flown cold.

Warming slow over a long period works the best.
 
Majority of my battery woes went away when I started warming them an hour before flight. At 75-80* f I'm getting 13-15 minutes flown steady at 20 mph.

These are GFI batteries I got low voltage warnings just after takeoff when flown cold.

Warming slow over a long period works the best.
What do you do to warm them up? Also, do you warm them up from room temperature?

I store my batteries at temps that range from 19c to 21c. Are you suggesting to warm them up an extra few degrees shortly before use?
 
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The OP mentioned his first flight was 8 degrees C or 46 degrees F. At 46 F I will get a low battery warning after takeoff. I have an hour drive to the mountain. I set heater to 85 F and place batteries on the floorboard by the time I fly the batteries are about 80*.
 
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Interesting development, I replaced both battery charging leads (originals from Yuneec) with 3rd party lead and the internal resistances are much lower.

Cant always trust OEM kit I suppose!
 

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