Last week had one of those bumpy landing where the H tries to walk off after landing, so went and had another practice today.. 6 landing perfect, did a bit of fly about and noticed the H getting a bit unstable before landing. Attempted a couple of red button landing, then the H started drifting forward on landing, slowly getting worse. So thought I would call it a day. Used the red button to land, but the H started bouncing about after landing.. fortunetly only the Gimble came of again. Checked telemetry log. Everything seemed okay.. Will keep you all informed.. New metal clips for gimbal are made will fly with them next week..
Another bad landing
- Thread starter pipinmels
- Start date
got my telemetry from T16.. about 2 seconds before the last landing, it appears the H lost GPS signal.. I'll have to keep my eye on this.
GPS warnings are somewhat common on landing, takeoff and at lower altitudes.
Drift is nearly always caused by a problem with the right stick. Check it in Hardware Monitor and see if it looks smooth or jerky and, in particular, returns to Zero when the stick is centered. The failure to return to exactly zero is what causes the drift.
Interesting... can relate a bit. What's your External Temps... sub-freezing?
As Steve suggests... I received the same suggestion a few weeks ago.
I noticed an improvement after I performed a calibration that included the sticks.
I still notice a little struggling to settle into a stable landing towards the end of flight and battery level getting on the lower end... 14.6-14.8v. Not factual data, just observation. If I perform test landings with fresh battery, I can smooth land 3-5 times no issues.
As Steve suggests... I received the same suggestion a few weeks ago.
I noticed an improvement after I performed a calibration that included the sticks.
I still notice a little struggling to settle into a stable landing towards the end of flight and battery level getting on the lower end... 14.6-14.8v. Not factual data, just observation. If I perform test landings with fresh battery, I can smooth land 3-5 times no issues.
PatR
Premium Pilot
As a rule, the H only skips along the ground when a control is being deflected that is sending a command for it to do something after it has landed. If both sticks are centered, and the throttle stick, holding only full "down" input, the H will just sit there after touchdown. Another thing helpful is not driving the H all the way to the ground from altitude. Stop a descent a foot or so above the ground to terminate the momentum generated by a long descent. Hover for a moment and then finish the descent. The H does not know where the ground is and a continuous descent to touchdown will always cause the H to bounce at least once after impacting the ground. Since you would still be holding down throttle a bit of conflict is generated at the flight controller. It just went back up while providing descent actions. If the operator does anything at the sticks during the bounce the odds are high that control input will be taking place when the H impacts the ground again. With the gear on the ground the only way the aircraft can respond to a pitch, roll, or yaw command is to tip over or skip across the ground until it either tips over or the motors finally stop.
The auto pilot remains actively engaged and the motors are generating enough high idle power to respond to even tiny inputs until the props achieve low idle speed, which usually occurs 3-5 seconds or so after touch down while the throttle stick is held full aft.
The auto pilot remains actively engaged and the motors are generating enough high idle power to respond to even tiny inputs until the props achieve low idle speed, which usually occurs 3-5 seconds or so after touch down while the throttle stick is held full aft.
Agree totally that is the Norm... although if 3-6 smooth landings occur, that indicates the landing method is within the practice of obtaining a smooth landing: 1-2 ft hover, slow decent for gentle touch, holding throttle stick down & center.
Just odd how that obtains multiple smooth soft landings, then 1 landing that is constructed the same smooth practice suddenly begins to struggle. It's an oddity to me at moment, waiting to see if this dissipates as warm weather arrives.
The OP indicated something I've noticed too. While flying, you suddenly feel it's not behaving as stable or simply not smoothly as a few minutes previous... at that moment, it's predictable the landing will struggle. All the struggling landings have been predicted prior to hovering down, just as all the smooth ones gave no indication there would be an issue touching down without issue.
Haven't zeroed in on it yet... but this is my 1st Bird to behave this way when I'm not being nice to the sticks... it'll shake itself out in time... if it's Pilot error, I'll be wrong... not the 1st time!
Just odd how that obtains multiple smooth soft landings, then 1 landing that is constructed the same smooth practice suddenly begins to struggle. It's an oddity to me at moment, waiting to see if this dissipates as warm weather arrives.
The OP indicated something I've noticed too. While flying, you suddenly feel it's not behaving as stable or simply not smoothly as a few minutes previous... at that moment, it's predictable the landing will struggle. All the struggling landings have been predicted prior to hovering down, just as all the smooth ones gave no indication there would be an issue touching down without issue.
Haven't zeroed in on it yet... but this is my 1st Bird to behave this way when I'm not being nice to the sticks... it'll shake itself out in time... if it's Pilot error, I'll be wrong... not the 1st time!
rdonson
Premium Pilot
Doug, how long since you've performed the accelerometer calibration?
I too found myself making perfect landings a lot. But.....when I encountered a difficult situation with it hopping around the adrenaline started to flow and noticed I wasn't always giving only down on the left stick. Sometimes I would have a bit of left or right in it that stick when I thought it was perfectly down. Not saying that's what's happening to you. What I've done to try to deal with it is to take it back up to about 10-15'. If it won't hover then I gently apply trim or whatever will calm in down and take it down slowly to the ground and hold the red button until it's over. Sometimes I've had to fly 50-100' away from that spot before it would calm down. Another reason I don't like getting the battery past first warning before landing. It would be perfect on the next few flights afterwards. Go figure.
I too found myself making perfect landings a lot. But.....when I encountered a difficult situation with it hopping around the adrenaline started to flow and noticed I wasn't always giving only down on the left stick. Sometimes I would have a bit of left or right in it that stick when I thought it was perfectly down. Not saying that's what's happening to you. What I've done to try to deal with it is to take it back up to about 10-15'. If it won't hover then I gently apply trim or whatever will calm in down and take it down slowly to the ground and hold the red button until it's over. Sometimes I've had to fly 50-100' away from that spot before it would calm down. Another reason I don't like getting the battery past first warning before landing. It would be perfect on the next few flights afterwards. Go figure.
Ron, with ya on that one... I’ve pulled up to recover and let it stabilize then hover back down, which has corrected the issue a few times, but others not, which resorts to the red kill button!
Compass, camera & accelerometer has been performed often while getting accustomed to the H’s characteristics. Although, not the last 2 outtings while focused on sub-temps.
It may be Pilot error, I’m not watching my thumbs & sticks, and unaccustomed to the H with my only experience so far is with numb fingers due to cold. Although I am able to land an RC collective Heli on very narrow skids without issue.
I have realized one difference between Mavic & Inspire compared to the Yuneec Hex design... the landing gear is more in porotion in dimension to the prop dish compared to the Hex design. The Hex provides a stable flight, but is a bit top heavy compared to the skids. As someone owning both Yuneec & DJI; I find it interesting with the H the various methods commonly practiced to counter unstable landings when a little software engineering would eliminate the problem. In a challenging sort of direction, I find this a feature enjoyed... but for work environments that I personally haven’t yet encountered with the H, this might not be desirable.
I’m anxious to see if the H920 has similar issue or if it behaves differently. My guess is it’s more stable looking at the design and dimensions. Plus the gimbal & CGO4 are much heavier which improves the lower CG and stability.
Compass, camera & accelerometer has been performed often while getting accustomed to the H’s characteristics. Although, not the last 2 outtings while focused on sub-temps.
It may be Pilot error, I’m not watching my thumbs & sticks, and unaccustomed to the H with my only experience so far is with numb fingers due to cold. Although I am able to land an RC collective Heli on very narrow skids without issue.
I have realized one difference between Mavic & Inspire compared to the Yuneec Hex design... the landing gear is more in porotion in dimension to the prop dish compared to the Hex design. The Hex provides a stable flight, but is a bit top heavy compared to the skids. As someone owning both Yuneec & DJI; I find it interesting with the H the various methods commonly practiced to counter unstable landings when a little software engineering would eliminate the problem. In a challenging sort of direction, I find this a feature enjoyed... but for work environments that I personally haven’t yet encountered with the H, this might not be desirable.
I’m anxious to see if the H920 has similar issue or if it behaves differently. My guess is it’s more stable looking at the design and dimensions. Plus the gimbal & CGO4 are much heavier which improves the lower CG and stability.
PatR
Premium Pilot
It’s only the later DJI aircraft that have improved the proportions of the landing gear. P1 and P2 had very narrow gear and always rolled over.
My 920 lands just like both my H’s. On their feet every time. With any of them they will become tippy if any directional inputs are made immediately after touchdown. The 920 is not quite as quick to tip as it is slower but it most certainly will.
My 920 lands just like both my H’s. On their feet every time. With any of them they will become tippy if any directional inputs are made immediately after touchdown. The 920 is not quite as quick to tip as it is slower but it most certainly will.
rdonson
Premium Pilot
Doug,
"I find it interesting with the H the various methods commonly practiced to counter unstable landings when a little software engineering would eliminate the problem."
This is something that intrigues me. My friends with DJI aircraft seem to complain at times about what seems to them like a constant stream of firmware updates. I don't know how many firmware updates the H 480 has had but its not a lot.
My understanding is that DJI has the telemetry from all their aircraft online. True? If true, they might easily be analyzing the telemetry continually and if they find an anomaly fixing it and preemptively putting out a firmware update quickly. If they do have all the telemetry then that's also a bit scary in a different way from an information security perspective since they may also maintain aircraft serial numbers with that telemetry.
Oh well, just curious. I only have the TH 480 and know little of the DJI universe except what friends say.
"I find it interesting with the H the various methods commonly practiced to counter unstable landings when a little software engineering would eliminate the problem."
This is something that intrigues me. My friends with DJI aircraft seem to complain at times about what seems to them like a constant stream of firmware updates. I don't know how many firmware updates the H 480 has had but its not a lot.
My understanding is that DJI has the telemetry from all their aircraft online. True? If true, they might easily be analyzing the telemetry continually and if they find an anomaly fixing it and preemptively putting out a firmware update quickly. If they do have all the telemetry then that's also a bit scary in a different way from an information security perspective since they may also maintain aircraft serial numbers with that telemetry.
Oh well, just curious. I only have the TH 480 and know little of the DJI universe except what friends say.
That is true, the early Phantoms were top heavy and narrow too. Later designs corrected or reduced.
Yep, sometimes being slower prevents a early tip over!
PatR
Premium Pilot
Indeed
A software update to correct landing “problems” was mentioned earlier. I’ll suggest learning how the aircraft handles and flying accordingly does the same thing. If you need something that does everything automatically to compensate for pilot deficiencies, buy something else. The H lands just fine when in the hands of a competent operator.
We’ve been on this road many times before and every time I’ve eventually been proven right.
A software update to correct landing “problems” was mentioned earlier. I’ll suggest learning how the aircraft handles and flying accordingly does the same thing. If you need something that does everything automatically to compensate for pilot deficiencies, buy something else. The H lands just fine when in the hands of a competent operator.
We’ve been on this road many times before and every time I’ve eventually been proven right.
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I have yet to ground land mine... I prefer the grab - shut off method. Although today for some reason it would not shut off..literally took me 2-3 minutes before I could get it to shut off. Are their failsafe's that prevent it from shutting down?
Indeed
A software update to correct landing “problems” was mentioned earlier. I’ll suggest learning how the aircraft handles and flying accordingly does the same thing. If you need something that does everything automatically to compensate for pilot deficiencies, buy something else. The H lands just fine when in the hands of a competent operator.
We’ve been on this road many times before and every time I’ve eventually been proven right.
And it’s been spoken! No room for debating that one. Ya but...
be gentle, it’s my first time down this road with ya! Although not accepting a pattern event that can be repeated solely as pilot’s incompentcy, based on the lack of existing on another H. That in itself would be an error in logic too, way to many other possible variables. One is pilot’s error... other undetermined at present.
Follow the yellow brick...I am debating whether to start practicing hand grab landings.. If I could find the problem, I could make a solution.. New to flying drones so not so confident on grabing the H out of the sky. Them props look nasty when spinning just feet from your face..
If you grab... make sure you grab the skid-leg T-section so you have ability to prevent H from pivoting at grip... normally before red kill Sw activates the H will power up to counter your hold. Listen to a few YouTube’s that grab the H. Hand grab can be done, and useful to learn & use in some situations; but I would agree it’s not a Spark you’re hand catching! I’d focus more on correcting the landings, insure throttle stick held center down & Rt isn’t being pushed any.
And... have the Red Button ready if needed. Rule out as much as possible to help determine human / machine error.
Indeed
A software update to correct landing “problems” was mentioned earlier. I’ll suggest learning how the aircraft handles and flying accordingly does the same thing. If you need something that does everything automatically to compensate for pilot deficiencies, buy something else.
.
As I’m strolling down the road... I reflected on thought... a long thought.
It’s not just a issue of indicating simplistic Pilot compentcy, it’s learning to counter possible erratic actions on the craft. I highly agree a person needs to possess the skills & experience to safely and compentently control the AC. Referenced in other threads, my encouragement to sharpen skills by flying crafts (collective Heli) that are not electronic marvels as a photo platform. But if it’s an electronic marvel, it’s also a platform to electronically improve.
Reading posts and viewing many YouTube’s of not just a small handful of Pilots but many indicates learning to counter the H’s possible intermittent behavior traits as required skill or find work arounds, in this case... hand catches and kill switch. This equates to Pilot compentcy... hmmm? I would consider this learning required to counter the FW deficiencies and lack of improvement... isn’t that also acknowleging the aircraft is static in development, if ongoing identification of issues and improvement has stopped. This promotes sales to gain market share... not.
It’s been previously indicated the H doesn’t know you’ve landed and any stick movement can cause a throttled up response action. Focusing on stick movement & not registering a landing as the potential problem. Not “able” to register a landing is not accurate, it’s more accurately indicating the current FW programming of the H hasn’t been written properly to recognize you’ve landed. There is certainly methods to easily determine landing; the accelerometer / gyros can be accessed to easily determine movement isn’t present and kill engines. There isn’t a movement in air that duplicates sitting on ground if sensors where read timely and programmed correctly.
It’s also been widely expressed that one major area Yuneec needs to improve is rapid response to firmware development to stay competitive. Adding enhanced features, camera support, 3rd party open development, hardware adapters as 3rd party product introduced and
improve User interaction experience should be as positive as possible to improve “word of mouth” advertisement... last time I checked the strongest form of advertisement... positive & negative.In contrast, an automotive product quickly dies for multiple reasons, simple electronics: 1) Electronic failures when physical hardware functional. Only takes a handful of Owners to experience a “minor”, not mechanical problem... correctable normally by firmware updates: electronic shifter slips out of park if not “electronically” locked, cruise control blips throttle in traffic, power window sensor blip fails to stop window when head or hand out window. 2) Slow or lack of providing similar electronic features available on competition: rain sensing wipers, auto adj cruise, brake systems, heated & cooled seats, etc, etc.
As an IT professional, I view the programming as a life cycle and when development stops on this type of product, so does the product’s life. To have such a small collective sampling of a “forum” express similar traits on-going over the years indicates the need to improve product and indicates the FW coding was never fully completed and has room to improve... or as apparent... they are buying elsewhere.
That said... I did knowingly purchase a static end of life platform, the H920. I’ll savor learning it’s character and adapt to it’s limitations, all accepted up front.. the “increased” risk of a discontinued static platform and difficulty to repair damage if not learned & practiced. That’s an attitude to maintain any older product: truck, firearm, film camera, etc. It’s part of the attraction.
Not the same for new... New product needs to appeal to the buyers, to New Buyers. Particularly when competition is providing increasingly enhanced electronics... soft hand landings, hand gestures, facial recognition commands, clear video signal over enhanced range, quick locking GPS, multiple flight plans, constantly improving technology rapidly. All the manufactures lacked or had multiple faults a short few years ago... the key is introducing new desired features, not following or static.
The Typhoon H is considered an active product, it needs to develope to retain and increase User base. The easiest, fastest improvements & enhancements can be offered through a simple free FW download. If the buyer needs to adapt to a possible “quirk” exhibited inconsistently or risk damaging their treasured purchase that is totally electronically dependent to operate or fly, most will transition to other product when it’s apparent their purchase is static.
My initial statement of H Firmware improvement was indicating the simple action Yuneec could perform to easily enhance the H to retain and increase market... not as a excuse to learn & adapt, that’s not an issue... we’ll learn each other and get along.
LoL, 35 plus years married teaches that one... not that I haven’t changed models. Ron, totally agree on the tin-hat concerns of data skimming and DJI. This is not just suspecting, the Fed Govt shadow techies have identified as a high possibility.
I’ve indicated in other threads to counter, I use a dedicated, non-cellular phone/iPad, Visa card (internet temp) that isn’t directly tied to my personal accounts and a misleading email account (name, BD, age, etc) dedicated to only DJI communications. Sounds like work, but it’s quick & simple in a few hours. That probably is due to military Intel & Pentagon NATO hitch... or just my paranoid nature. I also don’t do social media sites: Facebook, etc. more due to US Govt.
(minimal fake Facebook acct recently created)That stated, the realities are also apparent; the collection of data they could collect from a drone that isn’t readily available on the Internet or public state & govt sites is questionable. Aerial data? Thanks to satellites, google map any location and you’ll probably obtain better images than we produce. Data of Property, Names, tax and values... most is available online to public service. Get a Realtor license and gain additional tools to collect data. Get a PI license and more tools available. All these are quick and readily available.
I’m aware of the possibilities, attempt to reduce my own personal e-footprint, but not overly concerned about govt or public data... my flying & photography is Grrrreat
... but not a multi-billion satilite collection system or huge public data source.
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I never have this problem since I hand catch my H 100% of the time. The only time l let it land on it's own is when a have a crowd watching and want to impress them with my landing skills (I used Return to Home - I can just casually put the ST 16 down "Look Ma - no hands") Wow's them every time.
(I used Return to Home - I can just casually put the ST 16 down "Look Ma - no hands") Wow's them every time.Similar threads
