Hello Fellow Yuneec Pilot!
Join our free Yuneec community and remove this annoying banner!
Sign up

Educate Me

Such is an example of "Jaws" presumably. Good Point. But if I may, the issue about privacy and the way you framed it is perhaps not the whole issue. Anyone that goes to a public place has no expectation of privacy, certainly nothing like that which they are afforded in their home. I still have a problem understanding how anyone could have a problem with a consumer UAV in terms of privacy while in public. Might it be expected that these same people in their day to day life do things like take their kids to a mall for lunch and a movie. In a four hour trip as such to the mall do they have any idea how many cameras have captured their images - most of which with out their knowledge? Traffic Cameras, ATM's, all manner of stores' cameras, tons of other people catching them in their own selfies perhaps and not to mention their own phone which they have gleefully given permission for multiple apps to blab every detail and in some cases record some or part of what they do. But a drone? Oh well we have to regulate that.

And just to be clear, there is; or should be, a line between voyeurism and privacy. For instance what if I am out with my family and I want to take a picture of me with my wife and girls on the beach? If I take a picture and capture someone else in the picture, that is not an invasion of privacy - we are in public. On the other hand if someone seeks out an individual or individuals and begins to to follow and photograph - that is a whole different thing. The problem is we do not define it as such but there rules are on the book. Why not put a sign up that outlaws voyeurism - clearly define it and have a nice day.

Sorry, but the public perception of "Drones" has been well crafted and built very much like the perception that has all of academia worried about AI in the future. These same pen heads were the ones telling everyone that at the turn of the millennia, all forms of electronics would fail, computers would go dark, planes would fall out of the sky. Anyone remember all of that? The problem as I see it is we have a large portion of society that see no good use and in fact just the opposite - that drones are only for bad. Therefore outlawing them is good. And when we in the UAV community agree to any of it, we are essentially agreeing with the ideology (and that is what it is) that drones are bad.

It is a symbiotic relationship between the ill informed public and a growing bureaucracy that understand there is no power in the word "yes" ie, permission. The public is agitated and frightened by the boogie man and begs the state to intervene of their behalf - in the name of safety and protection of course; and the state obliges.

A perfect example of this insanity is the nationwide "Click it or Ticket" campaign aimed and getting more people to buckle up. Okay, thats well and good and on the surface it makes perfect sense. But then you have states like us here in Florida where the politicians have been lobbied to death to allow people to ride motorcycles without helmets. SO if you're in a car we care about you but on a bike we don't? No, the obvious answer is they are not doing for anyone's safety - their doing it for any number of reasons and using "Safety" as the PR campaign cause they know that works every time.

Sorry for the rant:D I am trying to bring a UAV program into our local Fire Department and the city council see "no valid reason at this time" I suppose they are prepping for the attack of the autonomous vacuum cleaners in 2022.:eek:

Indeed, we live in a society full of contradictions. There was an interesting article in a magazine I read recently that discussed how to help an irrational person see certain situations rationally. The gist of the article basically concluded that people, in general, tend to not be rational. That said, the challenge before us is to avoid falling into the same trap. Fortunately, there are rational people who have concluded UAVs are not inherently bad, hence, we still have lots of areas where they can be flown. The more advanced they become, however, the more the fear of those who do not understand them will likely bring about new restrictions. I think it is worth noting that Elon Musk, himself an architect of certain AI systems, has stated publically that AI presents a significant risk to us in the future. This is a guy who knows.

So what options do we have now? IMHO we enjoy the freedoms we have while we still have them. Railing against the irrational with rationality is a no-win proposition.
 
From discussions I have had with various park rangers, privacy has not been mentioned as a primary concern at all. Most of the time, I have heard:

1) Noise pollution

2) Safety concerns of other visitors and park staff, while flying

3) Putting rangers' safety at risk during operations to recover crashed drones, from less than accessible areas, as the most common objections to flying drones within national park areas.
 
From discussions I have had with various park rangers, privacy has not been mentioned as a primary concern at all. Most of the time, I have heard:

1) Noise pollution

2) Safety concerns of other visitors and park staff, while flying

3) Putting rangers' safety at risk during operations to recover crashed drones, from less than accessible areas, as the most common objections to flying drones within national park areas.

Hmm, interesting. National parks are a completely different proposition from what I was discussing. That said, a park ranger would know what particular reasons have come up with UAVs within his jurisdiction. One thing I appreciate about my Q500 Typhoon 4Ks is that they are actually pretty quiet compared to DJI's typical fare.

To gain some perspective on the issue, it is worth considering that if you were shooting some kind of film or video production via conventional methods (i.e. on the ground), permits are generally required to utilize any particular location with any significance. As a producer, I have had to deal with this. My guess is that national parks would be available for UAVs if their use was part of a permitted production, or specifically arranged within contracted guidelines and precautions. Contracts such as these typically address the things you mentioned by agreements being made ahead of time with the affected parties. It is frankly not too surprising this is the direction things are going with aerial photography where the identified ramifications exist.
 
To gain some perspective on the issue, it is worth considering that if you were shooting some kind of film or video production via conventional methods (i.e. on the ground), permits are generally required to utilize any particular location with any significance. As a producer, I have had to deal with this. My guess is that national parks would be available for UAVs if their use was part of a permitted production, or specifically arranged within contracted guidelines and precautions. Contracts such as these typically address the things you mentioned by agreements being made ahead of time with the affected parties. It is frankly not too surprising this is the direction things are going with aerial photography where the identified ramifications exist.

Yes, permits can be everything... for instance, I will be doing a future trip to shoot Lower Antelope Canyon... and there are specific months that they conduct "photographic" tours... but to do any video, you need to obtain a permit through the Navajo Parks & Recreation.
 
Yes, permits can be everything... for instance, I will be doing a future trip to shoot Lower Antelope Canyon... and there are specific months that they conduct "photographic" tours... but to do any video, you need to obtain a permit through the Navajo Parks & Recreation.

That is great information! Thanks for sharing.
 
JB,

When people finally get a clue they’ll finally discover they gave up their privacy when they started using a cell phone and the internet, not to mention all the privacy violations local, state, and the federal government use to track movement, location, credit card purchases, and employment. We won’t mention the payloads carried by law enforcement aircraft that extract phone data and can easily reveal what’s occurring inside your home.

People that use privacy as an argument don’t have a clue.
 
JB,

When people finally get a clue they’ll finally discover they gave up their privacy when they started using a cell phone and the internet, not to mention all the privacy violations local, state, and the federal government use to track movement, location, credit card purchases, and employment. We won’t mention the payloads carried by law enforcement aircraft that extract phone data and can easily reveal what’s occurring inside your home.

People that use privacy as an argument don’t have a clue.

It is certainly true that we do not have as much "privacy" as we think. However, given the choice, most people would change that if they could. I would even argue that the loss of privacy we feel due to all the reasons you mentioned causes us to be hyper-sensitive on the subject of UAVs. Herein lies the critical difference: There is not much we can do about many losses of privacy, but when it comes to UAVs, something can be done.
 
Why Is A Government Drone Flying Over A Sacramento Neighborhood?

I added this link just because you guys started talking about expectation of privacy

Thanks, Augustine.

The first thought that comes to mind is not about privacy at all. It is about communication and community involvement.

I could not view the clip, but I did NOT see anywhere in the article: “This 90-day project was presented at several public meetings for commentary before the city leaders voted to test the idea.”

I view it similar to a corporate buzzword: employee engagement. Whether or not the employee has any real say, at least extend the courtesy of discussing upcoming changes and programs, to hear feedback and possible concerns, rather than forcing things down people’s throats and being surprised at less than favorable responses and hits to morale and the like.

I am very curious whether or not any public notice was given prior to commencing operations. Try acquiring buy-in first. Do a good job of “selling” the benefits. Surprise and outrage may be tempered just a bit.

By the way... on a closing note, who was it who said “those who are willing to give up personal freedoms for personal security will end up with neither freedom nor security.”

Editorial leeway sought for the above!

Jeff

Edit: please see Eagle’s Eye Video’s contribution a few posts down. Eagle has graciously provided the exact quote. Fitting, as well... the “Eagle” angle, eh!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ty Pilot

"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless kept or made so by greater men than himself.”

John Stuart Mill
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorWiscPilot
By the way... on a closing note, who was it who said “those who are willing to give up personal freedoms for personal security will end up with neither freedom nor security.”

Benjamin Franklin - 1755, to the Pennsylvania General Assembly

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Educated in the Pennsylvania school system it was required... kind of like learning to spell "Pennsylvania"... :)

What I did not remember is the year... a full 21 years before the Declaration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorWiscPilot
From discussions I have had with various park rangers, privacy has not been mentioned as a primary concern at all. Most of the time, I have heard:

1) Noise pollution

2) Safety concerns of other visitors and park staff, while flying

3) Putting rangers' safety at risk during operations to recover crashed drones, from less than accessible areas, as the most common objections to flying drones within national park areas.
Some years ago I was flying from some moorland managed by the National Trust and one of their wardens pulled me up about it and insisted that I land the aircraft. I have to say that the guy was very courteous and reasonable about it as he explained that it was a time of year where ground nesting birds were...well...nesting, and that my activities were likely to disturb the birds. That was his only concern...that I don't disturb the birds, so I suppose it's about noise pollution. He said that I was welcome to fly there at other times of the year but not then.

Marsden Moor, the peat moor in question, is a fairly desolate place. No trees and few people to be seen so He wasn't concerned about points 2 & 3 above. Just the birds.
 
Some years ago I was flying from some moorland managed by the National Trust and one of their wardens pulled me up about it and insisted that I land the aircraft. I have to say that the guy was very courteous and reasonable about it as he explained that it was a time of year where ground nesting birds were...well...nesting, and that my activities were likely to disturb the birds. That was his only concern...that I don't disturb the birds, so I suppose it's about noise pollution. He said that I was welcome to fly there at other times of the year but not then.

Marsden Moor, the peat moor in question, is a fairly desolate place. No trees and few people to be seen so He wasn't concerned about points 2 & 3 above. Just the birds.

Out of curiosity, what model of UAV were you flying at the time, and how loud was it?
 

New Posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
20,977
Messages
241,830
Members
27,384
Latest member
TroyBoy