Military commanders get OK to shoot down drones over bases

[yosemite41]

Please fly smart with all FAA requirements.



Military commanders get OK to shoot down drones over bases – The Denver Post

 

[Steve Carr]

Guess I'm surprised they would even need special authority.

 

[FlushVision]

Guess I'm surprised they would even need special authority.

Rules of Engagement, I suppose?

 

[PatR]

They have had this authority. It appears that authority is just being better explained for the public benefit. Signs that state the "use of armed force is authorized" should be enough for people to get the message. Seems it's not though. Some people are either very dumb or deliberately obtuse but they get it together when the baseball bat method is used to educate them. Play games around a military installation if you want but don't be surprised with any possible reaction you obtain from it. You're putting your life on the line in one way or another.

 

[Wingshooter]

I am sure there are some Soldiers that have aircraft. I guess they have to go off base to fly theirs.

 

[mcbutler]

They have had this authority. It appears that authority is just being better explained for the public benefit. Signs that state the "use of armed force is authorized" should be enough for people to get the message. Seems it's not though. Some people are either very dumb or deliberately obtuse but they get it together when the baseball bat method is used to educate them. Play games around a military installation if you want but don't be surprised with any possible reaction you obtain from it. You're putting your life on the line in one way or another.

Any drone operator doing this would indeed be dumb but nowhere near as dumb as anyone who would try to 'shoot down' a drone with a weapon. What happens if the munition misses the target? yet another US friendly fire 'incident' as it lands in a mall or schoolyard?? All you need is a net gun or another cheap drone to crash into it (which would be far cheaper than any munition fired and the following maintenance of the platform used to fire it from).
Why does the US always jump to extreme military based options in the blink of an eye???

 

[FlushVision]

Any drone operator doing this would indeed be dumb but nowhere near as dumb as anyone who would try to 'shoot down' a drone with a weapon. What happens if the munition misses the target? yet another US friendly fire 'incident' as it lands in a mall or schoolyard?? All you need is a net gun or another cheap drone to crash into it (which would be far cheaper than any munition fired and the following maintenance of the platform used to fire it from).
Why does the US always jump to extreme military based options in the blink of an eye???

Have you heard Trump's latest rhetoric regarding N Korea? Frightening! Hopefully China or some other party will get involved to calm things down a bit. Last thing anyone needs is nukes. If it comes to that then the least of our troubles would be finding a good place to fly our UAVs without the military taking them out.

 

[PatR]

Drones are an extreme threat to military operations wherever they are. Drones collect data, and have been used to deliver ordinance with precision accuracy. Two items are of critical importance to the military, and one of them should be very important to everyone. Operational security, or OpSec, in information security, or InfoSec. Drones breech both of those. Data is the foundation of battlefield decisions, provides information to establish evidence of troop movements and routes, provide evidence that permits accurate assessments of future intent, and establish the strength response level of the facility. Some of the data they can collect include images, signal intercept, heat sources, and much, much more.

Military bases are supposed to be secure installations where everything going in, out, or over is tightly controlled. Where posted they are fully authorized to shoot first and ask questions later to protect the people, equipment, and data if their secure environment is violated. People in the military are not trained to quickly look at a drone and determine if it is a threat or not because they are all threats. A drone is frequently used to develop "patterns of life" where enough flights over a given period of time records movements of people or equipment which in turn permits extremely accurate predictions of who or what will be where and when. A lot of enemy combatants have been taken due to drones performing over flights that generated pattern of life intel.

People on a base see a drone that is not supposed to be there and they must assume it's a threat until proven otherwise. Threat management is another responsibility of the military and to permit drones to pass freely in their environment does not manage any type of threat at all. If they can't quickly take possession of the drone or locate and identify the operator and intent of the drone, or can't positively establish the equipment or ordinance present on a drone passing overhead, they have but two avenues to take; ignore it and let it go on it's merry way, doing whatever it's going to do and capture and take away whatever info it was sent to gather, or destroy it and terminate the threat. The military's job is to protect, defend, wage war, and destroy the enemy's ability to wage war. Terminate a threat is what they are very well trained to do. Some just can't seem to understand that and try to associate common social values with military values. That's a very big mistake.

Plain and simple, stay away from military installations. You place yourself and your equipment at great risk. Getting caught can find you stuck in some black hole for years without ever speaking to an attorney or your family. Flying a drone over a military installation is something that can be considered a terrorist act, where immediate action has priority over your rights. In such a situation, you don't have any. For some it could end up a Darwin moment.

 

[AH-1G]

Being former military I agree shoot and ask questions later. BTW there are other methods used to shoot down without using ammo.

 

[PatR]

Indeed, certain electronic devices can cook off drone systems almost instantly. Pretty hard on life forms as well as witnessed by the number of bird corpses around some antenna arrays.

 

[mcbutler]

22 years service in the British military 1983 - 2005.
Weapons specialist in both submarine service and Royal Navy surface fleet. Experience ranging across Trident/Polaris medium and short range large calibre and small arms, sensors and targeting systems
No projectile weapon is acceptable in a civilian environment during peace time and ALWAYS presents a risk to innocents. EMP devices, nets (even apparently eagles!!!) certainly are viable and effective.
Electronic jamming is the best option.
Shoot first, ask ?? later! in combat yes, but not at home.
As for locked away in a dark hole with no attorney, well thats US 'justice' for you guys, just like trying children as adults in Florida and banging them up for 40 years

 

[AH-1G]

22 years service in the British military 1983 - 2005.
Weapons specialist in both submarine service and Royal Navy surface fleet. Experience ranging across Trident/Polaris medium and short range large calibre and small arms, sensors and targeting systems
No projectile weapon is acceptable in a civilian environment during peace time and ALWAYS presents a risk to innocents. EMP devices, nets (even apparently eagles!!!) certainly are viable and effective.
Electronic jamming is the best option.
Shoot first, ask ?? later! in combat yes, but not at home.
As for locked away in a dark hole with no attorney, well thats US 'justice' for you guys, just like trying children as adults in Florida and banging them up for 40 years

And?

 

[PatR]

Most unfortunately society has changed, for the worst. Early on we could trust, later that became trust but verify, now it's trust no one. I'm afraid the conditions support that stance, and some of the children are totally corrupt before the age of 10. Parent's fault but that doesn't change what they are.

 

[TXLEO]

Hello gentlemen. It's funny this thread came up because I just passed my Part 107, have my own business and can retire any day now from my full-time job, which is a police officer for the city I work for. The city I live in borders a military base and the air space here is Class D. I am about to file for authorization to fly in this airspace to conduct my personal business, and I am going to see how close they will allow me to get to the military base.

The ENTIRE military base is prohibited airspace (of course) and I am not sure how close they will allow me to fly. Bad part is, they have a helicopter airport that has an ATC that is about 1,500-2,000 ft north of our city limits that is very active. So that will be very interesting for the north side of my city, airspace-wise.

I don't agree with using 'live rounds' in shooting down the UAV's that invade their airspace. I DO agree using jamming devices to interfere with the signals and then causing the UAV to fail and force it to the ground. Those items/options are ALL OVER this base out here, and they are DIRECTIONAL. I've personally seen them at work, as I have hunted and fished on the post since I was a small child, and I'm 50 now. So I agree with using some type of jamming or signal interference for the UAV and then forcing it down. Since I am law enforcement, I was very close to the game wardens on the base and have seen some things that most 'civilians and some military soldiers' haven't.

Also, at my post here, they fly their own UAV!! They have their own landing strip where they do their training and can easily take off and land at a moment's notice. Not sure if other bases have them, which I'm sure they might, but here at my base, that would be an option to have one of them mobilize and then force down the UAV within minutes!

JMO!

Good day!

 

[PatR]

Good luck with that request!

 

[TXLEO]

Thanks. I have a good start on a template from another forum member and I am going to ask permission from him, again since I believe he posted it so anyone could use it and adapt it to their specific situation, and see how I do. Plus, I am going to throw in a little extra 'doggy bone', as I am going to be using an item that I purchased a few months ago. It's a tether for the H by Hoverfly. The tether is only 150' long, so that is as far as it can fly or go. If there any type of system failure, the H will fall to the ground (God forbid!) at the end of the 150' max, if I have it out that far. But the majority of the places I would go and things that I would be doing would not consist of me flying over 50-75'. So my request will include a stipulation that I will be ALWAYS attached to the tether while flying within the certain distance from the military base.

So I'll see how that goes. I'll keep y'all posted on it goes. Right now, they are saying responses are anywhere from 2-4 weeks. Which is good, because that means I could jump right into work as soon as I get back from InterDrone this year.

 

[Quagmire LXIX]

I'm in total agreement (of course they would be responsible for any stray ammo) with the directive over military bases, no question. If I "accidentally" flew into the base, I'd be happy if all that happened to me was a destroyed drone.

 

[TXLEO]

I'm in total agreement (of course they would be responsible for any stray ammo) with the directive over military bases, no question. If I "accidentally" flew into the base, I'd be happy if all that happened to me was a destroyed drone.

Me too. Not spending a couple of years in Federal Prison trying to explain how I "accidentally" had my drone fly over their installation. Plus, I don't agree with how I have to have my UAV registered with the FAA and a hobbyist doesn't!! Because if my UAV goes over into their property, and is "shot down", then they can locate me. But if a hobbyist flies over there and is "shot down", and their UAV is NOT registered, they cannot track it back to the owner, then ALL drone operators are penalized for the hobbyist's mistake!! JMO!

 

[ThunderChicken]

Any drone operator doing this would indeed be dumb but nowhere near as dumb as anyone who would try to 'shoot down' a drone with a weapon. What happens if the munition misses the target? yet another US friendly fire 'incident' as it lands in a mall or schoolyard?? All you need is a net gun or another cheap drone to crash into it (which would be far cheaper than any munition fired and the following maintenance of the platform used to fire it from).
Why does the US always jump to extreme military based options in the blink of an eye???

They would not use an M-16 to take out a drone. A shotgun with bird shot would do the job nicely without worrying about the munitions falling to the ground. I have been sprinkled with bird shot by people hunting near by and it did not hurt. It was more alarming than anything. I contacted the neighbor and told him about the incident and he corrected the situation immediately. Some dove hunters from the city paid for a day hunt and he warned them about shooting directions.
And why do we jump to military actions? The tragedy of 9-11-2001 set the tone for our responses. Everything and everybody is assumed to be hostile until identified and proved other wise.
I can see the development of EMP rifles in the near future, that is if they don't already have them.

 

[EnlightenOnQ]

Already have emp/jamming rifles. They were just shown on Fox business News this week. Noted they will kill lots of signals wifi in a city environment. Very directional and also had video/optical jamming.