Just guessing but you perhaps used to hang out at the clothing optional south beach at San Onofre?
Of Batteries and the Typhoon H
- Thread starter PatR
- Start date
Here are results of some testing done in the past. I have tested with a lighter gauge 16 AWG, and the results were unexpected. The H would fly but..... the remote would warn continuously, low battery request to land immediately. Upon landing the wires would not be hot at all.
Also with the current heavier 14 gauge THHN wires nobody has experienced any issues related to hot wires, or any lack of power.
Other testing with earlier versions of battery mods that relied on placing the wiring and connections up inside the battery compartment would result in the weight of the battery being further back and seriously changing the balance for the worse. The solution to the balance issue (in the case of the eBay adapter) is routing the wires down the side (between battery and battery compartment, to ultimately make the connections on the outside. This put the alternative battery all the way to the front of the battery compartment, putting the weight in the best possible location. There were reports of crashes using the older versions that put much of the battery weight way out the back of the battery bay.
With most batteries in the relative size as the original, there just isn't enough room to get wire wider than 14 AWG with the THHN insulation to fit down the side with the adapter. Plus the issue using silicone insulation and the rubbing causing the insulation too peel off.
I don't believe the 14 gauge wire on the adapter is even an issue to begin with. Noting the factory batteries also use 14 gauge wire internally.
I and many others have had many flights with no issue using the adapter as it is. The only issue is if you use batteries other than the orange 6300mah, you must install the GPS mod first.
If anyone plans to (test alternate batteries without the GPS mod) I only suggest you start in any open field and be prepared incase the drone begins to wonder.
For me testing without the GPS mod, the strange behaviour would begin about 40ft off the ground.
The next step if you want to go with heavier 12 gauge wire, would be to open up the shell, solder the chosen 12 gauge silicone insulated wires directly to the motherboard and route those wires to the outside. The holder part to the adapter or Velcro could be used to secure the battery in this configuration.
The idea of the adapter as it is, is to have it plug and play and have it able to accept a wide variety of alternative battery choices.
Many (not all) Typhoon H owners will not want to be soldering wires to the inside of there drone. As for the eBay adapter, it removes easily, and it can quickly return the drone to its original non-modified state for a possible resale in the future. But, allows to quickly go back and forth with factory and alternative batteries in the field.
In this case the extra resistance is a trade off for a convenient and usable adapter. Based on the choices of materials to work with, within the limited space we have to do it in. Currently I know of 3 batteries that will fit in the hole. If that wire were any thicker, only one of those 3 batteries would fit.
Hey guys....
All this thinking has given me an idea for another way to do this. Only its gonna involve needing a small 3D printed part for each battery you choose to modify. It will also require some dangerous cutting the wires shorter, on each alternative battery and some soldering. Once the battery ages these parts can be transplanted to another new alternative battery. The drawback is if you want 3 batteries in the field you will need to have purchased shill the needed parts for 3 and assembled all 3 of them in advance. Where using the current eBay adapter requires only one purchase and no cutting wires or modifying of anything.
The video for the ebay adapter mentions an adapter for the camera (moves the camera 1 inch further forward) to offset the battery hanging out the back end.
Old times. That camera balance mod was to correct the balance issues of the older battery mods. In transition, I realised the latest adapter gives the same balance as the factory battery. So no longer needed. Could become useful in the future if there is a long battery out there that we may want to use.
Btw the factory setup itself is a little tail heavy at it is.
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It is indeed. The bump stop inside the battery bay to prevent slamming a battery into the OA board shifts the factory battery weight quite a bit aft of center.
The adapter from the old YouTube video, moves the camera forward just enough that everything still fits into the backpack without modifying the backpack.
Usually you would balance by adding more weight to the opposite end, but with a drone we don't want more weight. Moving the camera forwards changes the balance without adding any weights.
Also puts the stock drone into perfect balance. Although it shipped tail heavy from the factory.
I never ran test with and without the adapter to see if it improved the performance any. If there is someone that wants to do data collecting with this balance adapter, let me know and I'll ship you one free. All I ask is you do some scientific testing with and without the (camera balance adapter) report back with your findings. This info could help those in this thread who may choose to test a battery setup that would have otherwise put the drone into a bad balance.
Hi Shockazulu,
I was just wondering about this battery mod and all the info you know about it, would you be the inventor of it by the name of Rick Smith and if you are why don't you use your full name.
Call me curious but you know a **** of A LOT of INFORMATION about this adapter. If you are then no harm done, as I like to know who I am talking to and conversing with and also I am the curious type. Johnno Hennessy.
I was just wondering about this battery mod and all the info you know about it, would you be the inventor of it by the name of Rick Smith and if you are why don't you use your full name.
Call me curious but you know a **** of A LOT of INFORMATION about this adapter. If you are then no harm done, as I like to know who I am talking to and conversing with and also I am the curious type. Johnno Hennessy.
That's me. I've always used shockazulu on the internet for some reason. Probably since my common name had already been taken when I would login to any websites. Shockazulu was also my eBay name until I recently changed it to spaceship 1.
I’ve sort of been guessing shockazulu is the same individual that came up with a cooling and GPS mod about the same time Johnno’s cooling tower started gaining interest. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
BTW Johnno, after looking closer at the cooling vents on the H body, implementing your cooling fan was a brilliant move. Lacking that fan the tower by itself would have provided a delay in heat saturation by providing more space for radiant heated air to expand into. But lacking large area exit openings it would still have the potential to overheat. The fan changed that completely by inducting a considerable volume of cool air into the body, generating air movement inside the body and forcing heated air out of the body. Anyone that only added some additional vents would have come up short as convection alone would not get the job done. To just cut out the GPS and elevate it a couple mm using double sided tape would do essentially nothing for cooling. If they only added a little additional venting to the top shell and left the bottom unchanged the additional upper venting would end up more or less meaningless.
You used a method similar to what’s used on a lap top. They have both vents and induction fans. Anyone that has experienced cooling fan failure in a laptop understands just how quickly a laptop will over heat and shut down on a warm day. Anyone that has used desk tops in the hot desert has probably experienced computer shut downs even with a functioning induction fan if the air conditioning failed. I know I did with computers and other electronic hardware.
So, well done!
BTW Johnno, after looking closer at the cooling vents on the H body, implementing your cooling fan was a brilliant move. Lacking that fan the tower by itself would have provided a delay in heat saturation by providing more space for radiant heated air to expand into. But lacking large area exit openings it would still have the potential to overheat. The fan changed that completely by inducting a considerable volume of cool air into the body, generating air movement inside the body and forcing heated air out of the body. Anyone that only added some additional vents would have come up short as convection alone would not get the job done. To just cut out the GPS and elevate it a couple mm using double sided tape would do essentially nothing for cooling. If they only added a little additional venting to the top shell and left the bottom unchanged the additional upper venting would end up more or less meaningless.
You used a method similar to what’s used on a lap top. They have both vents and induction fans. Anyone that has experienced cooling fan failure in a laptop understands just how quickly a laptop will over heat and shut down on a warm day. Anyone that has used desk tops in the hot desert has probably experienced computer shut downs even with a functioning induction fan if the air conditioning failed. I know I did with computers and other electronic hardware.
So, well done!
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Just received the Tattu 6000mA battery I ordered and there’s some interesting observations.
The advertised weight is 590g but the actual weight is 540.8g. That’s 31g lighter than a Yuneec battery.
Battery dimensions on the website show the battery being, in mm, as 147x45x43.3. Dimensions as delivered are considerably different in one dimension, being 147.36x45.58x36.7mm.
Inserting the battery in the battery well, looking down on the top cover to establish “outside of well” battery over hang when inserted against the forward stop, I came up with 8mm of over hang, not including the power lead. That dimension will be greater using a temporary adapter. Fitting a 10mm thick piece of protective foam between the inside battery connector and the battery to minimize chafing between the end of the battery and inside connector wires, when the foam is fully compressed the over hang with the temp adapter runs between 12mm-15mm. Using the permanent adapter will maintain the 8mm dimension.
So the widest dimension is small enough to permit the battery to be inserted into the well standing on edge, leaving roughly 12mm of free space to one side for the power wires. That free space could be described as “ample” or “more than adequate” to route wires with no fear of chafing. Inserted on the wide side there is still 7mm of free space to one side of the battery. 12AWG silicone wire is ~4.4mm thick so there is still enough free space for the wires to run the inside length of the battery bay and not chafe. This, of course, assumes people will employ some soft foam in the open space to minimize battery movement.
Had I remembered to put the SD card back in the camera I would have included pictures but being old I didn’t discover that error until after snapping away. I’ll do it again...
So now I have a battery to flight test with and if history is a guide it should prove interesting. Remember that Yuneec batteries are labeled as being 5200mA but their performance closely aligns with pretty much all the 6300mA after market, factory case style batteries. This battery falls between those capacities at 6000mA and it’s lighter than any of the factory style case batteries.
When I ran up against battery quality issues with my 920 experimenting established that changing to a pair of after market batteries having a total mA capacity of 2000mA less (10,000mA versus 12,000mA) than the three factory batteries the system was designed to use provided almost exactly the same flight time. Using a single battery with a different chemistry in an 8,000mA capacity provided very similar results. That battery worked out to about 1 minute or so less flight time than two after market batteries. Both the one and two battery installations were lighter than the factory three battery arrangement.
Both types of after market batteries also managed current better than stock batteries as they provided more useful flight time between the first and second battery warnings over three combined stock batteries. Note; I typically do not fly past, or even achieve, the first battery warning unless I can visually establish actual battery voltage and know the delta between the warning voltage and a “safe” landing level voltage are far enough apart to make use of. The 920 has more “room” in this regard when using both after market and factory batteries, with after markets much better than factory.
So, remember my mission in this endeavor is not about obtaining more flight time. Going that route would require buying and testing lots of different batteries, something I have no desire to do as it would cost a lot of money that would never be recovered. I will only be using this one Tattu 6000. The primary objective is to establish if people can adapt their aircraft, safely and at minimal cost, to use widely available, non proprietary batteries of various capacities for a long, long time to come, eliminating dependence on a limited number of and limited availability of factory shell batteries and suppliers.
If this works, as I expect it to, flight time experimentation will be up to you folks. I’ll be putting things back together using a “temporary” adapter this evening and hope to flight test over the next couple days. At some point I’ll incorporate an amp meter that records peak current and voltage. I won’t do that for “stock” configuration until after the temp adapter testing as it will require tapping the main board leads for stock config data. For the temp config the widget fits easily in line between the battery and board, as it also will for the permanent adapter config.
If I felt really ambitious I’d find all the parts of my Eagle Tree data recorder to obtain some in flight internal/external temps but that may be a lit more work than I’ll want to do. If anyone else has such a desire, Eagle Tree is running a sale on all their data recording, flight telemetry broadcast systems right now. They employ a nice graphical interface that auto exports to an Excel graph format.
The advertised weight is 590g but the actual weight is 540.8g. That’s 31g lighter than a Yuneec battery.
Battery dimensions on the website show the battery being, in mm, as 147x45x43.3. Dimensions as delivered are considerably different in one dimension, being 147.36x45.58x36.7mm.
Inserting the battery in the battery well, looking down on the top cover to establish “outside of well” battery over hang when inserted against the forward stop, I came up with 8mm of over hang, not including the power lead. That dimension will be greater using a temporary adapter. Fitting a 10mm thick piece of protective foam between the inside battery connector and the battery to minimize chafing between the end of the battery and inside connector wires, when the foam is fully compressed the over hang with the temp adapter runs between 12mm-15mm. Using the permanent adapter will maintain the 8mm dimension.
So the widest dimension is small enough to permit the battery to be inserted into the well standing on edge, leaving roughly 12mm of free space to one side for the power wires. That free space could be described as “ample” or “more than adequate” to route wires with no fear of chafing. Inserted on the wide side there is still 7mm of free space to one side of the battery. 12AWG silicone wire is ~4.4mm thick so there is still enough free space for the wires to run the inside length of the battery bay and not chafe. This, of course, assumes people will employ some soft foam in the open space to minimize battery movement.
Had I remembered to put the SD card back in the camera I would have included pictures but being old I didn’t discover that error until after snapping away. I’ll do it again...
So now I have a battery to flight test with and if history is a guide it should prove interesting. Remember that Yuneec batteries are labeled as being 5200mA but their performance closely aligns with pretty much all the 6300mA after market, factory case style batteries. This battery falls between those capacities at 6000mA and it’s lighter than any of the factory style case batteries.
When I ran up against battery quality issues with my 920 experimenting established that changing to a pair of after market batteries having a total mA capacity of 2000mA less (10,000mA versus 12,000mA) than the three factory batteries the system was designed to use provided almost exactly the same flight time. Using a single battery with a different chemistry in an 8,000mA capacity provided very similar results. That battery worked out to about 1 minute or so less flight time than two after market batteries. Both the one and two battery installations were lighter than the factory three battery arrangement.
Both types of after market batteries also managed current better than stock batteries as they provided more useful flight time between the first and second battery warnings over three combined stock batteries. Note; I typically do not fly past, or even achieve, the first battery warning unless I can visually establish actual battery voltage and know the delta between the warning voltage and a “safe” landing level voltage are far enough apart to make use of. The 920 has more “room” in this regard when using both after market and factory batteries, with after markets much better than factory.
So, remember my mission in this endeavor is not about obtaining more flight time. Going that route would require buying and testing lots of different batteries, something I have no desire to do as it would cost a lot of money that would never be recovered. I will only be using this one Tattu 6000. The primary objective is to establish if people can adapt their aircraft, safely and at minimal cost, to use widely available, non proprietary batteries of various capacities for a long, long time to come, eliminating dependence on a limited number of and limited availability of factory shell batteries and suppliers.
If this works, as I expect it to, flight time experimentation will be up to you folks. I’ll be putting things back together using a “temporary” adapter this evening and hope to flight test over the next couple days. At some point I’ll incorporate an amp meter that records peak current and voltage. I won’t do that for “stock” configuration until after the temp adapter testing as it will require tapping the main board leads for stock config data. For the temp config the widget fits easily in line between the battery and board, as it also will for the permanent adapter config.
If I felt really ambitious I’d find all the parts of my Eagle Tree data recorder to obtain some in flight internal/external temps but that may be a lit more work than I’ll want to do. If anyone else has such a desire, Eagle Tree is running a sale on all their data recording, flight telemetry broadcast systems right now. They employ a nice graphical interface that auto exports to an Excel graph format.
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Phaedrus
Premium Pilot
I'll be interested in your feedback on the Tattu packs. I've had some poor performance out of them in some other applications. Despite a large C rating they exhibited a significant voltage drop under a moderate load (30 amps ~ 40C on 70C rated 850 mAh 3S packs). Enough to hit the LVC on a YGE60LV ESC. That was freshly charged and after only 10 seconds of run time. Switched back to some other brand 850 packs and no issues.
My experience with elevated current loading on Tattu packs has been limited to larger multirotors (800mm to 1240mm) employing 20k mA, 35C 6S Tattu packs. Current loads didn't exceed 150A-175A so there was plenty of "head room" for the application. The best batteries I've used were MaxAmps, a brand pretty hard to find performance faults with, but for similar capacity, C rated batteries the price was several hundred $ higher per battery. Great for scientific/aerospace budget spenders and performance accuracy but more than my pocket could handle. But, man, their service is out of this world above anyone else I've ever dealt with.
I've had a pair of Tattu/UltraX "H" batteries for a couple years and they have performed well. As good or better than factory H batteries. Thus far I've had good results with the Zippy 5000's used in the 920. I haven't checked voltage state and IR or done a post charge cycle check of this Tattu yet but I'm not very concerned about that stuff right now. Even if the IR's were a little elevated I just don't see the H putting a heavy load demand on the battery. Considering the H employs a bunch of 20A fuses I would be greatly surprised it the battery was subjected to a 20C load. Shoot, my 920 at full pull draws less than 80A from 5,000mA, 25C 6S batteries. When we consider the factory batteries are only about 8C or so (that's what the factory 920 batteries are labeled as) the Tattu should be considerably more than adequate.
My general thoughts about the batteries we are using has them pretty much "ho hum", or lower, in quality. The makers want to spend as little as possible in order to obtain as much profit as possible so quality is sacrificed to obtain better economics. Great, good, or bad, what we are being provided is, IMO, pretty much luck of the draw.
As for brand, capacity, C rating, dimensional, price selections, that's totally up to the end users. They can shop till they drop and experiment to infinity to find that "perfect" battery if they want. I have no brand loyalty, no financial interests, and no inclination in spending a bunch of money and time farting around with battery experiments. I'll leave that for the "max flight time" group. My only concern right now is establishing the methodology in principle and practice. I'm not the least bit concerned about battery performance. For my testing purposes it's not relevant to the objective. The performance results obtained with the Tattu will be interesting for sure, but certainly not definitive.
I've had a pair of Tattu/UltraX "H" batteries for a couple years and they have performed well. As good or better than factory H batteries. Thus far I've had good results with the Zippy 5000's used in the 920. I haven't checked voltage state and IR or done a post charge cycle check of this Tattu yet but I'm not very concerned about that stuff right now. Even if the IR's were a little elevated I just don't see the H putting a heavy load demand on the battery. Considering the H employs a bunch of 20A fuses I would be greatly surprised it the battery was subjected to a 20C load. Shoot, my 920 at full pull draws less than 80A from 5,000mA, 25C 6S batteries. When we consider the factory batteries are only about 8C or so (that's what the factory 920 batteries are labeled as) the Tattu should be considerably more than adequate.
My general thoughts about the batteries we are using has them pretty much "ho hum", or lower, in quality. The makers want to spend as little as possible in order to obtain as much profit as possible so quality is sacrificed to obtain better economics. Great, good, or bad, what we are being provided is, IMO, pretty much luck of the draw.
As for brand, capacity, C rating, dimensional, price selections, that's totally up to the end users. They can shop till they drop and experiment to infinity to find that "perfect" battery if they want. I have no brand loyalty, no financial interests, and no inclination in spending a bunch of money and time farting around with battery experiments. I'll leave that for the "max flight time" group. My only concern right now is establishing the methodology in principle and practice. I'm not the least bit concerned about battery performance. For my testing purposes it's not relevant to the objective. The performance results obtained with the Tattu will be interesting for sure, but certainly not definitive.
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Phaedrus
Premium Pilot
It is true that even within a single brand the consistency of quality can vary greatly. I've used MaxAmps. They make a nice pack. My current "Go To" are the Dinogy Lipos. Found them to be very consistent across size and rating. Lipo ratings are sort of a mess. I always take C ratings worth a grain of salt. Same with capacity ratings.
And I agree totally, the Yuneec cells appear to be some of the lowest quality I have come across. If push comes to shove I'll adapt my H+ to use normal lipos with regular plugs. One of my biggest gripes with all Prosumer brands is their insistence on using proprietary packs which turn out to be expensive and not very good. I don't need "smart packs". I want good packs, that are widely available, at a decent price.
And I agree totally, the Yuneec cells appear to be some of the lowest quality I have come across. If push comes to shove I'll adapt my H+ to use normal lipos with regular plugs. One of my biggest gripes with all Prosumer brands is their insistence on using proprietary packs which turn out to be expensive and not very good. I don't need "smart packs". I want good packs, that are widely available, at a decent price.
A few pictures to show I'm doing more than just talking smack.
Tattu Battery
For those with "chafing phobia", an anti chafing device in bulk, and with the device employed on a temporary adapter.
Tattu Battery
For those with "chafing phobia", an anti chafing device in bulk, and with the device employed on a temporary adapter.
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For those that like to assure battery plugs never get shorted, remain clean, and establish state of charge, these caps work pretty well. You can get them at Amazon but they are cheaper at HobbyKing. They come in sets of 5. I use them in XT-60 and XT-90 sizes, and look for other products that will cover other plug types. Funny thing, those 6S, 5000mA packs will actually fit in the Typhoon H battery well. A bit snug, but they'll go in there. PLEASE don't try doing that!!!!
XT60 Charged/Discharged Battery Indicator Caps (5 Pairs)
XT60 Charged/Discharged Battery Indicator Caps (5 Pairs)
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Old news for some, others not old at all. Regardless, talking about some things can be more difficult to grasp than seeing the subject. If you've ever wondered about the balance contacts on the power plug inside the aircraft, here's your answer; They're aren't any.
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