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Anyone tried binding H480 using a H920+ profile on ST16?

The H-480 has had CCC from the beginning, which is a very crude method of establishing waypoints. It works, but carries with it significant penalties. Using CCC the aircraft must first be flown to the desired location of a waypoint, saving that location, and moving to the next waypoint position and recording it. The mission profile is continued using that method until deemed complete. The aircraft is then flown back to or close to the beginning of the generated flight plan and initiated by the operator to be flown seamlessly using the autonomous functions of the software. A CCC mission cannot be set up with the aircraft on the ground, unless that mission had been previously flown, generated, and saved to be recalled later. There is no map or grid available to follow. A major detractor of CCC is the aircraft has to fly the mission to create the mission, and a large amount of battery capacity is consumed in flying and setting up the mission. Often a CCC mission must be generated on one set of batteries and flown using another set of batteries because too much battery was consumed in mission generation. Re-calling a saved CCC mission often requires previously saved waypoints be checked for positional accuracy by flying a test mission for verification. Tuna's UAV Toolbox blows CCC out of the water and is a much better tool to use for those that want to have a go at mapping, or waypoint missions in general. The only reason not to use it is that people want to be able to do any and everything for nothing and spending a few bucks on an app and learning how to use it is above their capability. Makes me wonder about the quality of the maps they create as that quality will be established by the captured data and the sophistication of the software or service used to process the data.

I've read where a few people have used the 920 profile and bound their 480 to it. Some say they have done this and successfully utilized the 920 waypoint function to fly mapping missions. I have yet to see product generated from those people and lacking proof to the contrary I'm a bit skeptical of their claims. Some say the 480 is stable when flown under the 920 profile while others say it is not. Since I don't know precisely where the PID's for the aircraft types are stored in the system I have a lot of doubts about stability. As the 920+ uses the same FC as the H-480 I don't understand how one flight controller can have two completely different sets of tuning parameters maintained within it. I do understand that a given FC can have different performance profiles but the differences in size and weight between a 920 and 480 are immense, as are the motor/propeller response times. That doesn't begin to consider the differences in aircraft mass, where the 920 is much greater and varies depending on how many batteries are used. My best guess has those using the 920 profile to fly a 480 putting their aircraft at considerable risk.

The 920's waypoint flight feature has provisions for downloading a limited amount of area from Google Earth, when internet connectivity with enough bandwidth allows, for later recall. A flight plan is generated by the user dropping waypoints with altitudes where desired, and allows "smoothing" the flight by selecting a curved intercept of the waypoints. Waypoint altitudes are also user selectable. Associated with waypoint generation are choices for where the camera will look and what it will do when arriving at a waypoint. The user has to set the tilt angles for each waypoint, which can be a bit tricky in guesswork. There is also a user option to establish what the 920 does after completing a waypoint flight. When building a 920 flight plan the aircraft is not being flown in the process. The waypoint function was designed and intended for cinematography type operations, not mapping. Sure, you can swap out the CGO-4 or other 16Mpxl to 20Mpxl 920 camera for a 12Mpxl CGO-3 to obtain geo tag data but hopefully you'll have changed lenses on the CGO-3 for something better than the stock lens.

I've never used the flight sim and have nothing to offer in that regard, but I can certainly understand staying warm inside over being cold outside:)
 
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Smoke indeed:)

All specialized tools have their benefits. I've worked with a Mavic and found it was quite useful in some things. I've also flown along side a couple of Inspires, both #1 and 2. The onscreen "go to" features are really nice and make things easy for beginners. DJI has truly made life simple for those using their aircraft and the SDK apps out there offer a lot of functionality. This is an area Yuneec is woefully lacking. I really like some of the later Inspire cameras but I like the zoom feature of the CGO-4 more, despite being 4Mpxl lower in resolution. After watching a friend with an I2 land and change cameras for higher image magnification I figured being able to push a slider to do the same thing had a lot of advantages. The I2 can fly a lot faster though. But for the nannyware....

In the meantime you need to get busy with your 920. From what I've read you're a lot more tech savvy than I am so your learning curve will be shorter. I need people to learn from too:p
 
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As always... Very Informative and in-depth!
On the line way point alternative options, a small purchase to obtain features in a package that coordinates & consolidates all the functions is a no-brainer, Purchase. I haven't looked at the UAV Toolbox yet, still getting up to speed on the Yuneec variables, but from what I've read it sounds like it meets the majority of the requested features for waypoint and mapping.

On the ST16's profiles. Did I understand correctly, it is possible to have multiple profiles: Tuning (no) vs Performance (yes). Which would include the Camera profile, and which is displayed on the ST16 UAV screen? I was interested in multiple Profiles of 1 craft configured differently, specifically different cameras/lenses. It's understandable only 1 can be active a time but I thought it'd be convenient to have the pre-configured sets: H & CGO3+, H & CGOET, H & CGO3-8mm, H & CGO-Agfilters, etc.

The quest that initially found this particular thread was due to searching for discussions on multiple profiles. In quick examination of the ST16's menus, I thought it'd be easy because it's so quick to copy or create a new profile within the UAV selection screen. I made a few copies without camera as a test and couldn't get it to be recognized.

This discussion has introduced a new question: Can a single ST16 FC be used with multiple UAV of same or different Model Profiles: H480, H920+, H520. As indicated, they all use the ST16, if there are multiple versions (levels) of ST16 can the top version (H520) be used on the lower model profiles? If taking multiple birds to site, can you take 1 FC as primary and 1 FC spare to serve all if FC failure. Using the "spare FC" as example, is the inverse applicable too: Multiple FC's can be associated to 1 UAV?
 
In regards to the camera profile question, the answer is yes but those profiles I don't believe they need to get down to the lens/filter type levels. Only the model and camera type need to be saved. My 920+ ST-16 is set up with 4 model profiles; Typhoon H, Typhoon H w/CGO-3, 920+ w/CGO-4, and 920+ w/CGO-3.

The ST-16 does allow binding both the 920 Plus and Typhoon H to a single controller. The 520 cannot be bound to a 480 or 920 Plus ST-16 as the 520 uses completely different hardware and software at both ends of the system, nor can a 520 ST-16 be bound to the 480 or 920 Plus to operate either one of them. Both the 520 and original 920 are "stand alone" systems with each dedicated to the model type. Only the 520 provides for any customization of the FC, and that the level of customization is minimal. I stress minimal as the base (PX4) platform of the 520 FC provides for extensive customization capability but Yuneec elected to inhibit most of that functionality, screwing their 520 customers in a big way. That pretty much follows a policy set with the H-480 as it employs a Pixhawk based platform that was also massively diminished from what it could normally do. In a way that parallels the way DJI operates by having the manufacturer maintaining total control over what an owner can do with their products.
 
Smoke indeed:)

All specialized tools have their benefits. I've worked with a Mavic and found it was quite useful in some things. I've also flown along side a couple of Inspires, both #1 and 2. The onscreen "go to" features are really nice and make things easy for beginners. DJI has truly made life simple for those using their aircraft and the SDK apps out there offer a lot of functionality. This is an area Yuneec is woefully lacking. I really like some of the later Inspire cameras but I like the zoom feature of the CGO-4 more, despite being 4Mpxl lower in resolution. After watching a friend with an I2 land and change cameras for higher image magnification I figured being able to push a slider to do the same thing had a lot of advantages. The I2 can fly a lot faster though. But for the nannyware....

In the meantime you need to get busy with your 920. From what I've read you're a lot more tech savvy than I am so your learning curve will be shorter. I need people to learn from too:p

The 920 beast is grounded pending Pilot competency and much warmer weather, too much to loose just being cold, rushed & stupid. I'm looking forward to hearing prop dish, let alone watch it lift off and easily labor to altitude.

The Mavic was retained... actually waiting to see the Mavic 2 if it gains a 1" sensor. The Spark is a yard buster... just fun to toss around in sport mode. The Mavic Air for technology is nicely designed. The Inspire1 was sold in process of acquiring H480 & H920 systems. The Inspire 2 with X4 or X5 Camera was getting a bit over reach and the recommended FLIR wasn't a practical cost solution compared to CGOET or FLIR options on the 920 with 2nd Radio.

I wondered into the Yuneec camp following the H520 news bits, but the H920 got my attention for the payload and size of flat belly for mods. Later discovered.. mainly through PatR writings, the 920 series had limitations due to lack of development. That brought the H480 into view. Still watching the H520, but waiting to see what the H Plus (aka: H520 B) introduces as features. I'm hoping the Map/Grid option will be added. I don't have a handle on the scope of the H520, it seems limited solely by development choice and slowly dying in similar fate of the 920. IF the H520 does die in favor of the H Plus, I'll see what value the 520 drops and may pickup and learn more Map, 3D and Ag.

Not to be a negative of Yuneec, I would have to admit at this stage of learning Yuneec's tools. The DJI Bird's power-up process is quicker to get airborne and the many software features are quick to learn, comprehend & utilize. The map screen, ability to easily determine orientation of UAV on screen, visual flight path tracing, and battery ease to discharge to storage mode User settings to list a few. The ability to use HUD style glasses (Moverio BT-300) would be great if available with Yuneec, removes the looking down at FC & Sun Glare.
But pro & cons with everything: the software limitations of NFZ and collection of logs disturb my anti-control attitude. In regulations, I feel the Hex beats the Quad for commercial usage as regulations increase... soon a fail-safe mandate for motor failure will be enforced for commercial work that will disqualify current technology of quads.

Regarding Quads, if Autel can obtain the needed electronics without being delayed & pushed out by DJI in China manufacturing; I'd prefer the Autel EVO 1" to Mavic 2 with 1". I'd REALLY like to see the Autel Kestrel project completed, a RC VTOL with that range, payload options & speed... impressive! Personally, I think a merge of Autel & Yuneec would be a strength that could compete with DJI. Or... instead of coping just DJI models, copy the Yuneec and build upon the design.
 
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I tried to generate interest in the purchase of Yuneec by a major aerospace outfit a bit over a year ago. It could have been a great marriage as it would have provided the aerospace company with an "offshore" manufacturer of consumer level products and as a test bed for new technology development. Unfortunately what was a benefit was also seen as a restriction since U.S. aerospace has to maintain positive control of the information exchanged with foreign companies. They understood the way Chinese businesses steal IP and violate copyrights all too well. There was also the pre-existing association of Yuneec with Intel that conflicted with an association by the other outfit with Microsoft. In the end the aerospace outfit elected to avoid the consumer level as being too "needy" and generating only small per unit profit levels, which in turn required very large volume in order to make it worthwhile. The cost versus benefit was upside down.

I agree that a merger with Autel could be a good thing but if there was to a merger with Yuneec Autel would have to assume total control and relocation of manufacturing operations would be necessary. Yuneec has demonstrated their incompetence much too well. As Autel is an American owned aerospace business also involved with the design and manufacture of government level UAV's there would need to be the same information control procedures employed as those of other aerospace/defense contractors.

Overall I think there's a smaller, highly creative company that would be much better suited to take over a company like Yuneec as their product development policy provides for incorporation of almost any payload into their open sourced systems but they don't have the finances for it. Such a take over would provide a means to target the consumer level on a scale of their choosing while also providing for further development of the high end systems that serve their existing customer base. However, I don't know if they would even desire to serve a consumer level, and it would be easy to understand why they might not. Yuneec is much too limited by their own imagination and agonizingly slow development processes as things currently stand, and they shafted a lot of people with the 520, which did nothing to expand their customer satisfaction level.

Something many need to understand is we will not obtain steak on a beans budget. The really good stuff doesn't, and never will, come cheap. What we'll get on low budgets is stuff that is "almost good enough" and leave us clamoring for more, something that best serves the manufacturers by leaving them room to periodically come out with new products that provide just a fraction more functionality. We are left with having to buy new systems over and over to obtain minimal performance gains. From my perspective consumers are being "played" to extract the contents of their wallets. Such systems will not provide for hardware upgrades that would significantly expand functionality. There is also the fact that miniature systems can't deliver advanced payloads until those payloads are significantly reduced in size without sacrificing function. It's all about the payloads. The software can assist with use of the payload and generated data but the payload is what makes what we want to do happen.
 
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If they opened up their Pixhawk platform we could have software like this which is still being developed even though the drone is no longer being made
* The Smart Shots you know, plus a bunch of other ones:

- Orbit
- Selfie
- Cable Cam
- Zipline
- Follow/Me (normal, uses device GPS)
- Follow/Remote (follows one or more remote devices running Solex Target)
- Follow/Record (follows a pre-recorded track)
- Follow/Optical (Follows an object using machine vision. Yes, really!)
- HDR (EV-bracketed photos)
- Pano

* Auto-fly to the start of cable cams and recorded flights
* Move cable cams between locations
* Geofences: Keep your Solo within a confined area to fly safely.
* Time-lapse: Capture photos automatically at intervals, stitch into time-lapse video
* Flight Profiles: Customize vehicle settings for "creep mode", sport flying, etc.
* Find your copter if it goes down in an unknown location
* Home Pointer: Points the way home to make navigation back to launch easy
* Fighter-jet style HUD view
* Return To Me: Have Solo track your location as you move around, and fly to you on RTL.
* Distance Fence: Avoid flyaways with Max Distance.
* Widgets:
- Pitch/Roll
- Vibration
- EKF
* Change LED colors on the Solo
* Save location/heading/altitude and fly back to it automatically later
* Track battery and motor age and health for multiple vehicles
* Execute remote commands on your Solo
* Sharing: Share Cable Cams, Geofences, recorded flight tracks, etc with others.
* Set your own custom movies on the startup screen
* Missions:
- Spline Points
- Surveys
- ROIs
- Associate actions with waypoints for totally repeatable shots
 
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I agree that a merger with Autel could be a good thing but if there was to a merger with Yuneec Autel would have to assume total control and relocation of manufacturing operations would be necessary. Yuneec has demonstrated their incompetence much too well. As Autel is an American owned aerospace business also involved with the design and manufacture of government level UAV's there would need to be the same information control procedures employed as those of other aerospace/defense contractors.
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An alternate to merge, the powers within Autel... find a close non-infrigment design to copy the Hex core design. Like they basically did with Phantom > Star and Mavic > EVO.

Overall I think there's a smaller, highly creative company that would be much better suited to take over a company like Yuneec as their product development policy provides for incorporation of almost any payload into their open sourced systems but they don't have the finances for it.
.
I'm not visualizing the "smaller, creative company", but in the drone industry I'd imagine there were several creative companies that could juice up Yuneec's design & development teams.

What we'll get on low budgets is stuff that is "almost good enough" and leave us clamoring for more, something that best serves the manufacturers by leaving them room to periodically come out with new products that provide just a fraction more functionality. We are left with having to buy new systems over and over to obtain minimal performance gains. From my perspective consumers are being "played" to extract the contents of their wallets.
.
Isn't that what the big outfits call "Good Marketing generating return business"?
Agree, it's a dead end on growth which used to be encouraged, now it's discouraged.

Something many need to understand is we will not obtain steak on a beans budget.
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:confused:But Sarge, we were always told a C-Rat was Steak & P-38 was a steak knife! ;)
 
Pat, I think we've both touched on platform open design in previous threads. If an outfit with cashflow, sm creative team, and motivated hunger were to adopt 2-3 platforms (S,M,L), modular design, editable End User configs, and a on-going development not to replace but to add additional components / features, and USA HQ based. I would agree, they'd probably take the market.
 
:confused:But Sarge, we were always told a C-Rat was Steak & P-38 was a steak knife! ;)

Someone once told me that MRE's were really good too but through repetitive experience i decided that claim must have been relative:) Sort of like Goana. You can live on them but they taste like chit.
 
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Pat, I think we've both touched on platform open design in previous threads. If an outfit with cashflow, sm creative team, and motivated hunger were to adopt 2-3 platforms (S,M,L), modular design, editable End User configs, and a on-going development not to replace but to add additional components / features, and USA HQ based. I would agree, they'd probably take the market.

That's pretty much exactly what Aerial Alchemy does but with a twist. One of their "medium lift" platforms converts to a heavy lift in a matter of a couple minutes. Each airframe starts out with a basic intended payload established by the buyer but the system design allows for adaptation of other payloads as customer needs change over time. Only the best available components are used in their systems. We won't find them cheaply though, but they are well worth what some call the investment. It's one of the few times I'll associate that word with a multirotor as the system can grow as the user grows. Had I still been full time employed I would have bought one instead of the 920. Unfortunately the available resources were not sufficient for a cash purchase.

As for finding a non infringement frame design, virtually none of the airframe configs have been patented or copyrighted. If any were to infringe on a Chinese copyright it would be only fair if they experienced the same level of punishment the Chinese do when they infringe, which is no punishment at all. Tit for tat. The more efficient frames such as the tri, and H frames, are wide open to any kind of deviation to make them "pure". Both offer a lot of advantages over the common quad or flat hex shapes. Nobody can patent or copyright the basic carbon tube or plate, only small components they elect to use in the assembly as a finished frame. How a coaxial design comes together does present some unique opportunities for some outfits though. If a firm was buying basic frames from someone else how they assemble them and turn out an end product would be almost completely up to them.
 
If they opened up their Pixhawk platform we could have software like this which is still being developed even though the drone is no longer being made
* The Smart Shots you know, plus a bunch of other ones:

- Orbit
- Selfie
- Cable Cam
- Zipline
- Follow/Me (normal, uses device GPS)
- Follow/Remote (follows one or more remote devices running Solex Target)
- Follow/Record (follows a pre-recorded track)
- Follow/Optical (Follows an object using machine vision. Yes, really!)
- HDR (EV-bracketed photos)
- Pano

* Auto-fly to the start of cable cams and recorded flights
* Move cable cams between locations
* Geofences: Keep your Solo within a confined area to fly safely.
* Time-lapse: Capture photos automatically at intervals, stitch into time-lapse video
* Flight Profiles: Customize vehicle settings for "creep mode", sport flying, etc.
* Find your copter if it goes down in an unknown location
* Home Pointer: Points the way home to make navigation back to launch easy
* Fighter-jet style HUD view
* Return To Me: Have Solo track your location as you move around, and fly to you on RTL.
* Distance Fence: Avoid flyaways with Max Distance.
* Widgets:
- Pitch/Roll
- Vibration
- EKF
* Change LED colors on the Solo
* Save location/heading/altitude and fly back to it automatically later
* Track battery and motor age and health for multiple vehicles
* Execute remote commands on your Solo
* Sharing: Share Cable Cams, Geofences, recorded flight tracks, etc with others.
* Set your own custom movies on the startup screen
* Missions:
- Spline Points
- Surveys
- ROIs
- Associate actions with waypoints for totally repeatable shots

Combine all that to function within the Hololens platform and you can plan, execute, and review a flight in a 3 dimensional holographic setting, not to mention the ability to locate, geo reference, and communicate directly with other aircraft along with remotely access and operate their payloads while you're in flight. Such has already been done and is in use. It's crazy fun to work with.
 

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