Thank you. Sad to see you go, but I respect what you went through. Sometimes I see the GPS issues myself and get frustrated myself..
Post your results of the 11-16-2016 firmware here.
- Thread starter Steve Carr
- Start date
Thanks. Yeah I wish it would've been returned to me with the problem resolved, but unfortunately not.
PatR
Premium Pilot
dxer,
You keep asking this same question using different formats. Are you hoping to find someone to tell you that GPS is going to be reliable indoors? If you do find someone that says so you have a choice in front of you; trust the one person that tells you what you want to hear or the many that understand how GPS works. Your call, your aircraft.
Turn the GPS off inside a building. The signal is at best attenuated and highly unreliable.
No, I just want to know why it is saying GPS Ready while I am inside and there are zero satellites. I mean, how can we trust GPS Ready outside while it is saying GPS Ready with zero or couple of satellites when inside ?
PatR
Premium Pilot
You can't, that's the point. When inside a building we are dealing with a false, refracted, attenuated signal similar to listening to a radio channel from a station too far away to have a clear signal. Sure, the system is picking up enough signal to hear bits and pieces but not enough to rely on. A vast number of information packets are not being exchanged but just enough may be completed to create a very tenuous link. HDOP is terrible. Just hold your hand over the GPS on the H. You'll lose GPS. Then think about which is more dense, a building, or your hand. It requires very little to block a GPS signal. Never, ever use GPS inside a building and think it's functioning correctly.
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PatR
Premium Pilot
Dxer,
I've been in conversation with others on this subject and something occurred to me. Since GPS is supposed to be turned on when using IPS, and since GPS is not resolved enough for centimeter level accuracy, could IPS be using the GPS internal circuit for position reporting? If that's the case, and it makes some sense when we consider that positioning will be conducted in a specific type of internal comm channel, GPS would have to be on to open that channel. IPS might be designed in a manner that shunts the GPS system to make use of the circuit. Just a wild a$$ed guess you understand, and propagated be a lit if experience with engineers, who like ti cram the maximum amount of stuff in too small of a product.
One thing is certain, you will not have a reliable GPS signal indoors but IPS needs that system enabled for IPS to function.
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I've been in conversation with others on this subject and something occurred to me. Since GPS is supposed to be turned on when using IPS, and since GPS is not resolved enough for centimeter level accuracy, could IPS be using the GPS internal circuit for position reporting? If that's the case, and it makes some sense when we consider that positioning will be conducted in a specific type of internal comm channel, GPS would have to be on to open that channel. IPS might be designed in a manner that shunts the GPS system to make use of the circuit. Just a wild a$$ed guess you understand, and propagated be a lit if experience with engineers, who like ti cram the maximum amount of stuff in too small of a product.
One thing is certain, you will not have a reliable GPS signal indoors but IPS needs that system enabled for IPS to function.
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If I understand correctly what you are saying, then IPS ( Indoor Position System ) should work when outside too, right ? But I don't see how IPS is helping for the altitude when telemetry reporting several meters incorrect altitide.
PatR
Premium Pilot
IPS does function outdoors. View the system as something that might be based on something similar to "optical flow". My experience with GPS is that it does not work inside a building. It can't without a very extensive and sophisticated repeater. The signals received are just no good.
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GPS is supposed to be turned off while flying indoors (RealSense module installed/activated). This was discussed in great lengths in another thread..
When GPS is turned off, you will still see the IPS icon. I flew with GPS on and I did see the IPS icon, but it didn't hover stable. @Tree mentioned that he had GPS off while flying indoors and it was more stable than my test flying indoors.
If I can clarify, you turn off GPS on the controller as soon as you are able. Leave that calibration window open while you fly so you can be sure GPS remains off. Sometimes if you back out of Calibration the ST16 will try to turn the GPS back on. You don't want that indoors.
2nd clarification. Your Obstacle Avoidance Switch. Put this in the middle position. When you are ready to fly and you get the Welcome Pilot message, you will eventually notice on your ST16 or ST24, where your Drone says "READY" in blue letters, that when IPS comes on, you will see IPS in Purple letters over the little Drone Icon.
Make sure you have calibrated your compass.
The only other thing I can think of, is that if your drone is acting funky even though you can clearly see GPS off in the calibration area, which I recommend leaving that small window open so you can always see it is off........I digress.....power the drone back down again....make sure the controller is running with GPS off, and then power the drone back on again, and don't fly until you see the welcome pilot message, and give the drone a few seconds to do some scanning with it's sensors before you take off.
All the reading I have read, tells me IPS is it's own system apart from GPS and is used for indoor flying or in the event of a GPS loss.
IPS stands for Indoor Positioning System.
Look it up.
OBS switch is either on or off. When you position the switch in the middle, it's still turned off. Top and middle positions are off. Down is on.
PatR
Premium Pilot
I was aware of what IPS stood for
I think there's a misconception by some that want to believe GPS is accurate to the foot level, and can't understand why positional deviations of 3 or more feet occur when GPS is used...anywhere. GPS is not that accurate and anyone can perform tests with their cell phone or Google Earth to clearly see that. They can also Google for more GPS comprehension. With civilian GPS, using a single system, a CEP of <26' is great. IPS is not based on GPS and uses a different method to establish distance separation. That's why I mentioned optical flow.
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I think there's a misconception by some that want to believe GPS is accurate to the foot level, and can't understand why positional deviations of 3 or more feet occur when GPS is used...anywhere. GPS is not that accurate and anyone can perform tests with their cell phone or Google Earth to clearly see that. They can also Google for more GPS comprehension. With civilian GPS, using a single system, a CEP of <26' is great. IPS is not based on GPS and uses a different method to establish distance separation. That's why I mentioned optical flow.
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I was aware of what IPS stood for
I think there's a misconception by some that want to believe GPS is accurate to the foot level, and can't understand why positional deviations of 3 or more feet occur when GPS is used...anywhere. GPS is not that accurate and anyone can perform tests with their cell phone or Google Earth to clearly see that. They can also Google for more GPS comprehension. With civilian GPS, using a single system, a CEP of <26' is great. IPS is not based on GPS and uses a different method to establish distance separation. That's why I mentioned optical flow.
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Thanks for your comments PatR. I was not trying to be smart....just saying what I learned.
I will tell you this, if you fly from outside on GPS and try to fly say inside a covered docking bay at an industrial site, even if you turn off GPS while flying, your drone will fly erratically as if it doesn't know to use GPS or IPS at that time.
So if I am going from outside to inside, I land my drone, take it inside, and turn it off, then boot it back up again and turn off GPS on the controller. And it was my understanding that the middle position for Obstacle avoidance is Off for OBS, but allows IPS to run. The Off position I believe turns off both IPS and OBS. But, hey there is no manual, so........
IPS cannot rely on GPS. How could it work if you cannot get any satellites inside a metal building?
You hit the nail on the head. I recall seeing a discussion why Yuneec decided to use a 3-position switch where it clearly needed only a 2-position switch (OBS). Some have said they saved money by using the 3-position switch since they had them in stock.. Again, not documented anywhere..
Just saying that my experience IPS works indoors and very well. I think sometimes us folks are in too much of a hurry to take off. Take your time. Give the drone a chance to map it's surroundings.
Make sure you have taken time to set up the drone for indoor flying. Having my H, has made me be more conscious of checking my equipment, doing pre flight checks, etc.
You'll have a lot more fun, if you take a methodical and professional approach to flying your drone as if it were a full scale aircraft that you must check for air worthiness, and air readiness to fly BEFORE you lift off.
The only way to find out is see if IPS indicator comes on in the Full Off Position. I fly in the middle position and it comes on, and I was told to fly that way, by a more experienced pilot.
In fact, every time I get my drone out, I start with all my switches in the middle positions as I was taught to. And I check each switch and control before I take off, including the camera.
So what I was told is that the full up position is ALL OBS including IPS off.
Do I know that for sure? No... But there is only one way to find out.
You try it with your drone first.
LOL
I don't have the opportunity to fly indoors as much as I can. I will test this theory out when I can. If you can sooner than myself, toggle the OBS switch to the top, GPS off, and see if IPS still comes on. Only way to provide concrete evidence, instead of assuming..
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